Please advise-think we've lost all our money! UPDATED!

Joe_Horner

Hi PP

First of all, try not to panic and try to deal with things in a step-by-step logical fashion. That's why not panicing matters, cos you can't do both at the same time!

From what you've posted there are two possible ways to sort this out. One is to get your money back and the other is to get the car sorted - don't worry for a moment what the Citroen dealer said (we'll get to that in a bit).

So the first step is to decide which outcome you'd prefer - your money back to get a different car with, or this car (which you presumably liked when you saw it) sorted so you can trust it. Writing off the money is NOT one of the options so don't even entertain that one! Be prepared to accept the other "reasonable" outcome, but decide first which you want to happen.

If you decide you want our money back then the first step is to find out whether or not it was a GENUINE private sale. If it was then you have much less chance because a private seller does NOT have to explicitly tell you about faults unless you specifically ask. As long as the things they've said are true, it doesn't matter what they've failed to say.

On the other hand, if the seller was "trade" then they have to tell you about any major faults even if you don't ask. It doesn't matter if they claim they're selling privately, as a trader the still have to tell you. Someone who claims to be a private seller when they're actually trade is committing a criminal offence just by claiming they're private - in fact, they're committing an offence if the don't make it clearly obvious that they're a trader even if the don't clam to be private!

The way to find that out is to look at their advertising history, as well as things like who the log-book is registered to and an other details that might suggest "trade". From what you've said, having several adverts running close together, having log books still in a previous owner's name and having "his mechanic" available to take a look all suggest that he's trading to some extent.

If it seems to you that he's trading like this then speak to your local Trading Standards, or ask CAB to on your behalf, for advice on whether he's likely to be "legally" a trader based on what you know (the may already have info about him if he's been doing this for a while) .

Getting your money back may still be an uphill struggle if they believe he's trading but your chances improve if you've got a good basis for a claim in law.

If you decide that you'd rather have the car working properly then use the Citroen diagnostic as a starting point but remember that their quote will be to put it in a condition that they consider to be "right". That may be well above what's needed to make it a perfectly good, reliable, car. Regardless, the will only use new parts, from Citroen, which will carry a large premium and their labour rates will be higher than a good independent.

If you can make contact with the seller then take him up on the offer of "his mechanic" looking at it. DON'T mention that it's already been to Citroen and ask for details of what they find before you agree to accept a repair attempt. If they come up with something similar (in terms of the work needed) then let them try to repair, if they come up with something completely different THEN ask them why "Citroen said so-and-so".

That'll probably do for now cos this post is going to get confusingly long at this rate

Joe_Horner

Penny-Pincher!! wrote: »

Ive found adverts on Auto Trader too and on there it states dealers number! OH is so angry and I don't have any energy.

Ok, if he's selling as a dealer in one place then he's presumed to be ALWAYS selling as a dealer regardless of what he claims ("sold as seen" etc). A dealer CAN sell his own stuff privately but it's down to him to prove that any particular case was private - hard to do when the car isn't even registered to him!

"Sold as seen" declarations mean absolutely nothing when a dealer is selling to a private consumer btw

hartcjhart

below is from this site

http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/buyingausedcaryourrights.html


Buying a used car is always a tricky proposition. It doesn't matter if it's last year's model or an old banger with plenty of miles on the clock; it's always a bit of a gamble. That makes it especially important to know your rights when you buy a used vehicle.

Buying From a Dealer

Buying a used car from a dealer is still probably the safest way to go, but that doesn't mean all dealers are 100% honest. What you need is someone established, with a good reputation. Ask your friends, or look for one with a trade association sign.

The Retail Motor Industry Federation or the Scottish Motor Trade Association can give you a list of their members.Does the dealer have his cars inspected? If so, by whom? Is it an independent engineer? Or is it by a motoring organisation? Don't be afraid ask for the report. It won't be that detailed, but it'll still be useful. You can also arrange for your own mechanic to inspect the car. However, if your mechanic misses a problem, the dealer won't be liable. The Sale of Goods Act covers used cars. That means they must be "of satisfactory quality" (allowing for the fact they're used), as "described to you," and "fit for any normal purpose," including any that you especially specify to the dealer. Warranties or guarantees don't affect these rights.
Related on Consumer Rights Expert...

• Selling Your Car? Look Out for Scams
• Your Car Could Be Crushed If It's Uninsured
• What's the Law on Parking, Clamping and Fines?
• Buying an Extended Warranty on a Used Car

If something goes wrong after you've bought the car, go back to the dealer straight away. Explain the problem and how you want him to remedy it. If you aren't happy with what they say, contact Trading Standards (https://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk). If the dealer is a part of a trade association, they should be able to help you. If you belong to the AA or RAC, they can help, too.

Demanding a Repair or Replacement

If a car is faulty, the buyer has up to six months after date of purchase in which to reject the vehicle. You can demand a repair or a replacement, unless a replacement would cause "disproportionate or significant inconvenience" to the dealer - such as when a repair might be just as good/effective as a replacement or if the defect is minor - then a price reduction may be more appropriate.

The dealer has to prove the car was of satisfactory quality when sold, so there is no need for an independent car inspection. Put your concerns in writing to the dealer and give any additional evidence to support the problems.
Buying Privately

Buying privately might be a cheaper option, but it's much riskier, because you have far fewer rights. The only qualification is that the car needs to be "as described." If a private seller lies about the car's condition, then you can sue him.

Sometimes dealers pretend to be private sellers. It's an attempt to get rid of dubious cars and avoid their obligations. If you see several ads with the same phone number, watch out. If the seller is really a dealer, then your Sale of Goods Act rights apply.

hence why I said to keep copies(printed) of any adverts

hartcjhart

forgot to say,my local trading standards say that if you sell more than 3 cars a year they consider you to be a dealer and should register as so

Premier_2

hartcjhart wrote: »

forgot to say,my local trading standards say that if you sell more than 3 cars a year they consider you to be a dealer and should register as so

How / where does one register as a motor dealer?

im-lost

Premier wrote: »

How / where does one register as a motor dealer?

presumably they mean declaring their self employed interests
to the tax man...

Premier_2

im-lost wrote: »

presumably they mean declaring their self employed interests
to the tax man...

Presumably he is registered as self employed with HMRC if he is openly disclosing he buys & sells on ebay.

The taxman keeps a close eye on ebay as it is good place for easy pickings for them

motorguy

Strider590 wrote: »

If he's selling cars off his driveway, there's also a limit to how many he can sell in one year before the tax man jumps on him. Might be worth investigating that and then mentioning this to him at some point.

Not true. Strictly speaking if he buys ONE car with the view to selling it on to make a profit, then he must declare this as income to the taxman.

Strider590 wrote: »

FYI these driveway car dealers really annoy me, because many are unemployed, claiming benefits and making cash "on the side" selling dodgy motors.

Very much so. As can be seen with this thread these people are very keen to evade their responsibilities and give motor traders who ARE trying their best a bad name.

motorguy

Personally, i'd push this one all the way, but be aware that an unscrupulous trader like this will do EVERYTHING they can to avoid paying.

I would take the car to a independent specialist and see if you can get that bill down substantially, rather than racking up a huge bill at a main dealers that ultimately you might have to pay yourself.

Tilt

If he's buying and selling he is a trader end of. From the OPs account that's exactly what he is so SOGA applies.

My advice is to contact the seller and tell him you consider that the car is not of satisfactory quality and not fit for the purpose and as such you are rejecting the car under the SOGA 1979 and will requiring a full refund. Also send this in writing giving him 7 days to refund your money and arrange collection of the car.

Don't spend any more money on the car and once rejected you should not use it.

Send your letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy.