Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Maz

Why not concentrate on my customers who have ALL saved money compared with their previous suppliers? Some have the cashback card and some don't.

I can't offer proof because I don't keep records as I would be contravening Data Protection legislation.

But I do examine their bills and Kwh rates, tell them if I can save them money (or not) purely based on this information. If I can't save them money, I tell them. If I can save them money, I tell them.

If they want to be a UW customer, that's fine and if they don't want to, that's fine as well.

You can't say fairer than that.

mech_2

Maz wrote: »

Why not concentrate on my customers who have ALL saved money compared with their previous suppliers?

Maybe they have. But that doesn't mean they couldn't have saved more by switching to something other than UW does it?

Cardew

[QUOTE=uptomyeyeballs;27917295UW reps are made to reveal their connection with UW, but it's about time those who are keen to trash it are also made to reveal why themselves. But they'd never do that, because they'll all be revealed as big hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

Of course they are not all as honest as yourself;); some UW reps might not even declare their interest.

I really admire the way you keep an open mind and are balanced in your posts. It really is so astute of you to be able to detect hypocritical posts.

Have you read the contributions by Carespress? - a man you would surely admire!

As an opponent of UW, what have I to reveal?

I dislike the Modus operandi of UW, I detest the way people with vested interests(not you of course;) - you are always so even-handed as all your posts prove) try to mask the fact that UW have the highest prices in UK.

Even more disgraceful is the way those with vested interests post in support of UW pretending they have no axe to grind - not you of course; who could possibly think such a thing;)

SwanJon

Vinny dodges and Carmine hides. Hmmm.

Vinny, why not answer the question?
When did websaver 4 change its price as you suggest? Or are you making that up to make uw look good?
If I remember rightly last time you trotted out these extreme figures they belonged to a friend, but now they are yours. Hmmm

vinnyph

SwanJon wrote: »

Vinny dodges and Carmine hides. Hmmm.

Vinny, why not answer the question?
When did websaver 4 change its price as you suggest? Or are you making that up to make uw look good?
If I remember rightly last time you trotted out these extreme figures they belonged to a friend, but now they are yours. Hmmm

If you tell me why the BG on-line deals seem to get worse going back into the past as the online energy swapping companies prices indicate then I will try to find out the answer to your question. Deal?

Don't you see it as strange though. It seems different to what you are being taught to say by BG. I would suggest getting back to your manager tomorrow. I think your customers would find it fairer if there was just one online deal that continued to track the standard rates but at a lower value. Can't understand the need for so many different online tariffs from BG. It just suggests something is wrong there to me.

Last time the figures with a friend were

9000 night-time
1000 day time
2000 gas

not the same as my figures at all, we are both on Economy 7 though. His figures still come out very good as well as mine. Why do you see them as extreme, because they are low or because they show cases where UWDC prices for gas and electricity are good even on the online energy swapping company sites before the many UWDC discounts are applied.

I would also like to see your own figures and companies you are with.

Long Term UWDC Customer who became a Distributor because it proved to be good and other people liked it as well.

vinnyph

Quentin wrote: »

This one is just one step beyond the boundary of your normal bad taste.

No-one should be allowed to post such abuse.

The uw and your colleague uw reps will surely want to be distanced from you. This is in a separate league to you posting misleading claims!

I notice you didn't post the full message so it changes the context of what was meant. Something that you usually do to try to show someone in a bad light because you are so desperate to attack. It's something you have done many times before and to many people. The topic that had been brought up was denial of Gods creation. I said

'Still certain you can disprove god. God wasted his time when he created you.'

Quentin, you should repent for the number of times you have bore false witness on others. I have lost count. I still do not understand why you are so determined to try to attack anyone related to UWDC. What is your motive.

vinnyph

kippen_noedel wrote: »

How on earth do you know my home is overheated ? ....


I certainly have not "attacked" Christians - another lying misquote from you. I attacked the contradictions of the Bible and asked you what made your version of Religion so much better than all the rest. If you are so fragile in your belief you took that as an attack, you need help.
I don't "deny" God, and half of the planet will disagree with your projection of such a being. 70%+ do not believe in Jesus as the son of God either.

As for your relationship, that is a joke. If there is such a being, then if I am heading towards a deep fryed solution, I'll be seeing you there after this disgusting, and far from Christian comment

Your "Father", must be so proud of you..

From everything I have read I have come to the conclusion your "faith" has proven very profitable in recruiting converts to your cheap personal energy bills. Are all your clients members of your local church or just the vast majority of them ??

I still do not know why you brought God into this thread about UW and their very high energy prices, possibly when you reflect, you might wish to share your reasons with everyone

If your gas usage is 48000kwhs it would suggest you use a lot of energy for either heating or cooking or both. That is a very large figure. You either have the windows open all the time or like it hot enough to cook yourself. I know a bloke with a 9 bedroom house who uses far less than you. I may be unorthodox in my approach but it's my helping nature. Surely if we all economise the earth's natural resources will last longer.

Actually they are not just church goers who are my customers I have some pagans destined for the fiery pit as customers as well. I do not judge people you see. Who am I to judge people. It's God who is judge. If they help me with my just cause to save people money maybe they will see redemption.

You did ask a question like you did before but didn't like the slightly religious answer. Here goes.

For you to be a Humanist as you indicated before, their man made philosophy involves the denial that god is their creator. That is a denial of God.

I believe there are different paths to God. However I believe Christ is God's revelation. If Jesus and God will judge you is it not better to live your life in accordance to his will. Christ is a direct path to God. Someone who has never even heard of Christ can still get into heaven by simply following Gods commandments by chance. If you repair a car, would you follow the guide written by the one who designed and created the car or just anyone who makes it up as they take it apart. How will you put it back together again. It's better to follow the direct path.

You say you didn't attack Christians but you attacked the Bible. The Bible is what we have of Christ. To attack the Bible is to attack God. It is God's word and way. I don't get upset if someone attacks the Bible but you should realise why it's not good for you. My belief hasn't changed in answer and is not fragile as you suggest. You say you do not deny God yet you believe The Humanist movement to be right. They deny God as creator, so they deny God. You cannot have it both ways.

John 14

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."
Jesus the Way to the Father

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.'

It seems Christ himself has told us in John 14, 6 why Christ is the direct path. I say this only that you may at least know.

If I recall, it was you who put up the link up to the the Humanist site. If you state that and suggest I go there and follow some bloke then it's only right I tell you why it's not right.

You state that half deny god. This site however, indicates a much higher figure believe in God. The number comes up as 87% indicated they belonged to a religious denomination across the world. If they belong to a religious denomination they must believe in God. Many different religions believe that Christ has importance. Christ himself has indicated he is more than just an important man and many times in the Bible.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

Your argument is that you believe the bible has contradictions. However there are many contradictions in the man made Humanist beliefs you portray and they change their beliefs over time. Yet you think the Humanist movement is right. You appear to contradict yourself.

I see that the Bible has a lot to teach on morals.

Matthew 18

The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

The Parable of the Lost Sheep

10"See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.[a]
12"What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.

A Brother Who Sins Against You

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.

19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

What I don't understand is why people in the UK do not want to talk about God. There are even unwritten laws that say, do not talk about religion or politics. Why? People don't even think why. Does God offend you? Are you proud of heart? The rest of the world are quite open about it. It's just a UK thing and they are in the minority in the world even though they still think they are an empire with power.

--It's up to you what you want to believe but at least you know what God has taught us through the inspired word of the Bible.

So where are the contradictions? Don't say you have been listening to the Humanist agenda.

Through god we can find release from sin that controls us. Christ is our salvation, not something to control us.

My father in heaven may or may not be proud of me as you say but it is no reason to become proud of heart. I humble myself before him. I forgive those that will repent as God has forgiven me.

I was brought up an atheist because my father hated religion. Thank God I saw through that.

So you got a religious answer to a religious question. You can't blame me for that

vinnyph

Cardew wrote: »

Of course they are not all as honest as yourself;); some UW reps might not even declare their interest.

I really admire the way you keep an open mind and are balanced in your posts. It really is so astute of you to be able to detect hypocritical posts.

Have you read the contributions by Carespress? - a man you would surely admire!

As an opponent of UW, what have I to reveal?

I dislike the Modus operandi of UW, I detest the way people with vested interests(not you of course;) - you are always so even-handed as all your posts prove) try to mask the fact that UW have the highest prices in UK.

Even more disgraceful is the way those with vested interests post in support of UW pretending they have no axe to grind - not you of course; who could possibly think such a thing;)

If you didn't have an axe to grind then:-

• why make so many misleading comments like UWDC energy prices are just about the highest in UK.
• Why do you ignore the many discounts with UWDC when you compare prices.
• Why do you ignore the cases where UWDC come out cheapest on energy alone.
• Why do you suggest that there is never a case for a customer to be with UWDC for energy.

For that matter while I am at it

• Why suggest to people what to do with their choices when you agree you don't really bother to get the best or cheapest yourself and have said you waste money.
• Why expect people to treat you like a Money Saving Expert.
• Why do you try to distract people away from an issue then blame it on them.
• Why stand in agreement with Quentin when he clearly has made so many errors in the past.
• Why suggest you know better than Distributors about how UWDC works.
• What the Modus Operandi?

No matter how many times you call your bluff and distract people they still just end up calling you a bluffer because that is what you do. UWDC Distributors have asked you these things in the past yet you side step and try to blame it on them instead. Are you going to bluff and bluster your way through them calling you a bluffer as well.

I noticed you have side stepped my remark that you are paying over 3 times as much as me. Would you suggest to me to move from UWDC on my usage or just skirt around that issue because it doesn't agree with the image you have of UWDC?

I have a vested interest in UWDC. They have been a good company and been a help through some difficult times. People actually get paid some money as well. What is wrong with getting paid money in exchange for effort especially when it saves people money. I know you don't agree that it does save money, but what do you really know about it. Have you done it or ever been a customer. No. I would not do it unless it did save people. Do you save a load with who you are with. No. I have lots of long term customers I am regularly in contact with. Not once have any of them said 'why did you sign me up to that UWDC'. If I started getting lots of complaints from customers I would think about stopping but I haven't, so I'll continue. Instead I get referrals from them.

Long Term UWDC Customer who became a Distributor because it proved to be good and other people liked it as well.

Plushchris

Vinny, a few questions (again)

Where is the consumer focus code of confidence logo on the UW website and their "savings calculator"??

Exactly what are the "many discounts" a gas and electricity customer gets with UW?

How can you deny that UW gas and electricity unit prices are among the most expensive in the country?

Just the answers please, no religeous guff

SwanJon

vinnyph wrote: »

If you tell me why the BG on-line deals seem to get worse going back into the past as the online energy swapping companies prices indicate then I will try to find out the answer to your question. Deal?

erm, no.
All I'm asking is for you to back up what you said
If you cant back it up, why should I, or anyone else, believe you?
Tell you what, how about I put the question in my sig? Seems to be the done thing on the UW side.

If you want to discuss another energy supplier, start a thread for it.
Crazy idea I know, but how about on the UW thread on the gas and electricity board we discuss UW's gas and electricity?

vinnyph wrote: »

waffle waffle waffle

Last time the figures with a friend were

9000 night-time
1000 day time
2000 gas

not the same as my figures at all, we are both on Economy 7 though. His figures still come out very good as well as mine. Why do you see them as extreme.

Ok, they are just very similar to yours, especially the convient 10% daytime usage.

Thinking out loud...
1000 units/year =~3 kWh/day. E7 so 17 hours/'day'. ~200W average
9000 units/year =~27 kWh/night (all year). 7 hrs/night ~4kW average

1500 units/year =~4.5 kWh/day. E7 so 17 hours/'day'. ~300W average
13500 units/year =~42 kWh/night (all year). 7 hrs/night ~6kW average
(now feeling that I rely too much on calculators/pen & paper)