Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

SwanJon

I don't log on for a bit and 4 more pages appear. Luckily 3 of them were Quintin, UW IDs and Carmine going round the merry go round. anway here goes

keggs wrote: »

(a) The bit that says I was using my contact with a business customer to explain what happened to her. The fact that she happened to be a business customer of one of the big 6 is not relevant. That wasn't the point of mentioning it.

Actually because you are talking about renogiating tariffs it is incredibly relevant. I have never come across a domestic customerbeing able to negotiate a tariff outside of those set y the company - ever.

keggs wrote: »

(b) I also see that no ID has come forward to confirm that UW allows Indpepndent Distributors and domestic customers to negotiate tariffs that UW will abide by (mainly coz I think you made it up)
Go back and reread my post. I didn't say that nor imply that.
I suggested that the big six sales people can negotiate not UW IDs.

And I told you that you are wrong when it comes to domestic customers - there are 45 million. it just wouldn't work

keggs wrote: »

As for you not being able to renegotiate - fine. But I know people personally who have had their domestic tariffs changed when they've threatened to leave. My point - if they can do it then why didn't they do it before. Reason: they are ripping people off.

Really bad argument -if UW could save people money with the cash back card, why didn't they do it before - were they ripping people off. Oh, and I have never come across a personalised tariff on a domestic account - whih company were these peopl with, when did it happen, are you sure it wasn't a credit or similar (this would make much more sense for the supplier - it is easier and not permenant)

keggs wrote: »

(c) I fail to see what point you are making about the training point. BG, Npower etc salesmen and women are exactly that aren't they? They are supposed to have training aren't they? I understand they are fed and watered at their so called trainings. Enlighten us all on what goes on. My point - I am given to understand they are trained to use whatever means to try and sign up customers bar mis selling. Or is that not correct? UW ID training on the other hand has one single purpose - to give people confidence in going out to talk to people with a view to show people they know and don't know the benefits (without arm twisting) of joining the UWDC. They are NOT trained to be sales people in the way most people think of selling.

Oh, before you made no attempt to attribute the quote to anyone other than yourself so I though it was what you thought. I take it you are quouting someone form each of the big then - they all said that?

keggs wrote: »

Like Quentin you appear to be selective and misread what is said. You did it to VinnyP and you are doing it to me. Shame on you. I thought you had more integrity than that.

Vinny was good enough to provde his source. Your turn.

keggs wrote: »

As for your Bait & switch comment - that's just not possible with UW. We don't and CANNOT offer anything than what is on offer. What people see is what they get. We do not bait any customer - that's for sales people I would suggest. Despite what Quentin might like to imply - I don't consider myself a salesman. I would also suggest that no other ID would describe themselves like that either. We shoe and recommend. Period.

*cough* "Like Quentin you appear to be selective and misread what is said." I said that I was using it to describe a deflecting tactic. Hello Mr Pot.

vinnyph wrote: »

If the company was as bad as what people try to make out on here I would never have got involved in the first place. If it was as bad as the insinuations I would not continue to do it.

I think, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. most people have an issue with the minority untrained/underhand IDs, not the company

vinnyph wrote: »

He now has a pension many times what you earn...
These people aren't the typical teenager that the direct marketing companies use.

Good post, just watch your assuptions.
I honestly think that finally making training compulsory for its sales agents (keggs, we've had that discussion, and I think you are the only one who thinks that IDs are not salesmen) is a really positive step - I don't know the numbers, but it is fair money that UW are number 7 - they are beginning to realise this and act accordingly.

keggs

I really haven't a clue what you are talking about Swanjon. Your post is a mess. Not just that you have attributed a post to me as detailed below:
(b) I also see that no ID has come forward to confirm that UW allows Indpepndent Distributors and domestic customers to negotiate tariffs that UW will abide by (mainly coz I think you made it up)

You wrote that not me.

1carminestocky

I think, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. most people have an issue with the minority untrained/underhand IDs, not the company

SJ, if Cardew, Quentin and the rest of the AUWF just had an issue with the minority of untrained/underhand IDs, then why don't they appear to have similar issues with all of the Big 6? Let's face it, the energy industry is THE most distrusted industry in the country, but the level of abuse UW get on here is entirely dis-proportionate to the rest, surely? There must be some other reason...

SwanJon

I'll admit it was my issue - the criteria needed to sell UW's products used to only be the £200 to stump up. For the big 6 you had to go through training (althoug as we've on on Watchdog etc, the training can be overridden by shadowing a bad apple).
On here it's proably the (new?) IDs that come on the forum and try to get people to sign up - assuming that we are all gullible enough to fall for it.

vinnyph

SwanJon wrote: »

I'll admit it was my issue - the criteria needed to sell UW's products used to only be the £200 to stump up. For the big 6 you had to go through training (althoug as we've on on Watchdog etc, the training can be overridden by shadowing a bad apple).<br />
On here it's proably the (new?) IDs that come on the forum and try to get people to sign up - assuming that we are all gullible enough to fall for it.

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With all respect swanjon I think you are making assumptions in regards to UW. Its because you have never actually done it. The training has always been in place. Active distributors attend COE multiple times. There are many different advanced training courses that go to a much higher level to train someone to become an expert and so be able to help people in their team. I have been on all the training and value it to be of a very high standard. There are also over 40 venues across the country. You also have to consider that upline are there to help the person also, not just the COE. A person coming into the business has the benefit of multiple upline to train them how to do it best. Professional conduct is an absolute necessity in order to get trust to gain referrals from customers. Also upline are asked to help people initially by attending an appoitment with the new distributor. The reason the business has been so successful is down to the help given. COE has always been there. With due respect sir, Charles Wigoder knows what to do. He comes from good breeding with a wealth of experience within the industry.

I like the fact that there is no pressure in the company, just the assistance to go as far as you want to go. Someone has all the training available to become an expert. The training is from the best.

It's when a salesperson is put under high pressure that they tend to resort to not following professional conduct. They resort to an unskilled tactic in order to get the extra sale else they can be got rid of by their manager for not getting enough sales. That pressure is where problems come from.

Now I always allow an energy salesperson from the big 6 to tell me their stuff. I am interested to find out what they do and whether they would be the right sort of professional, honest person to do Telecomplus. There are all sort of tactics I have seen and instances of miss selling. I can tell how much they understand about the industry because I have been involved for many years and made every step to learn it properly. I have had the benefit of all that advanced training and experience. Now you see I don't try to catch people out I just feel sorry for someone who has lots of pressure put on them. I realise its for that reason that they try to get the sale at all costs. Energy Sure codes of practice were introduced to try to combat these problems. Still there are thousands of energy sales people who have gone through the route of the direct marketing companies. Those companies employ mainly 18 to 22 year olds who are sent out with only a single day of training and put under huge pressure to get sales targets. The huge turnover of sales people means that someone can end up training someone else within weeks of starting themselves because everyone else has left to get a more secure job. With the high unemployment at the moment amongst teenagers there will be thousands who try it over the summer. The vast majority will fail. Most will just try it because its easy to get the job and there isn't anything else at the moment.

Now someone who gets involved with telecomplus is in it to do it for a few years not just a few weeks. It is a few year plan afterall. They have made a decision and realise they will need to know their stuff. They are ideally a professional person with experience. To do well people obviously need integrity in order to get referrals and initially a network of contacts who trust them. They will already be working and need to invest extra time to build that extra income over time. I don't like to recruit someone who isn't already working because the business takes time to grow otherwise they will be under pressure for income in the same way as what happens with the direct marketing companies. Telecomplus is designed as an extra income.

Above all the level of training within Telecomplus has always been of a high standard. This was long before Energy Sure codes of practice were introduced for the other companies to try to stamp out miss selling by door to door sales people. However, Telcomplus does not train someone to go door to door as that method isn't used. Word of mouth recommendation is much more professional and ultimately successful.

vinnyph

Quentin wrote: »

The card gained its "risky" title thanks to the uw who point out its risky to anyone signing up for it as a headline in its ts + cs. From your post it would seem you have never been trained about this.



You say that you are unhappy about being classed with the other uw reps who are very happy to come here and mislead, and very happy to put misleading adverts on the net etc.

Check out the antics of your colleagues who have attempted to use the vast numbers of moneysavers who visit the board to try and mislead and spam us.

As well as all the misleading reps posts here, you only have to watch the way we have learned you you are encouraged to sell your products (by deception - eg. using friends to help out over a problem at work,(when really your agenda is to sign them up), and by careful use of the worthless guarantee as a sales aid etc, etc) to see how the reputation developed.

If you are "fuming mad" at being lumped in with the bad apples in your organisation, then get it sorted out at source. (We now learn that presumably because the only qualification to become a rep has been stumping up the £200 to join has lead to "serious misselling", and you have had a criminal in your midst the company will now insist on some formal training before allowing you to sign up customers. (Though doing the training doesn't mean they will have any qualifications!).

And see how many time we have been told that it is only rogue reps who do things badly (but they are outside of the company's control)!

To be fair Quentin for someone who makes uneducated claims without knowledge, proof or credibility but merely a constant insistance that you are right and everyone else is wrong deserves a nick name.


From now on thou shall be known as

Incredulous Quentin

may thy wear thy moniker with pride.:idea:

AvengerSeawolf

Quentin wrote: »

The card gained its "risky" title thanks to the uw who point out its risky to anyone signing up for it as a headline in its ts + cs. From your post it would seem you have never been trained about this.

You say that you are unhappy about being classed with the other uw reps who are very happy to come here and mislead, and very happy to put misleading adverts on the net etc.

Check out the antics of your colleagues who have attempted to use the vast numbers of moneysavers who visit the board to try and mislead and spam us.

As well as all the misleading reps posts here, you only have to watch the way we have learned you you are encouraged to sell your products (by deception - eg. using friends to help out over a problem at work,(when really your agenda is to sign them up), and by careful use of the worthless guarantee as a sales aid etc, etc) to see how the reputation developed.

If you are "fuming mad" at being lumped in with the bad apples in your organisation, then get it sorted out at source. (We now learn that presumably because the only qualification to become a rep has been stumping up the £200 to join has lead to "serious misselling", and you have had a criminal in your midst the company will now insist on some formal training before allowing you to sign up customers. (Though doing the training doesn't mean they will have any qualifications!).

And see how many time we have been told that it is only rogue reps who do things badly (but they are outside of the company's control)!

Your basis for using the word 'risky' to try to denigrate the card is tentative at best, and shows us once again that when presented with a reasonable argument, rather than answer the questions asked you sramble around trying to find something else in your inexplicable quest to try to undermine UW. Without looking, I am confident that there are similar T&C's in many other similar financial products.

Whilst I note that it is not your policy to try to respond to our questions, lest it be shown that for many UW is a good option, I am a big boy so I will try to tackle the points you have raised -

1) I daresay that most of the spammers on this forum you mention are in the vast majority simply brand new and over-enthusiastic, perhaps even a little naive (see SwanJon's post)

2) In MLM/network marketing it is up to us to go out and find our customers - they don't form an orderly queue. Some people need direction on how to generate interest, which is what our training helps with.

3) Yes, there appears to have been a criminal in the network, and granted like any company we will have our fair share of bad apples. The company is attempting to sort this out. We need to - as we don't advertise, our word of mouth reputation is the most valuable tool we have. But please, don't mistake naive over-enthusiasm for criminal intent.

4) You seem to like associating the words 'misselling', 'misleading' and 'criminal' with UW, as some sort of way once again to put the company in a bad light. Yet you are the very same person who is happy to use information and resources from our password protected private website to try to build a case against us. Is this not hypocritical?

As I and many others have agreed before - we aren't the cheapest and don't purport to be, however, there are many benefits to becoming a Club Member.

I think there are many on here who have done their best to respond to your concerns over UW, and in many cases have agreed with your point of view, so in return:

Can we have a response on the value to our customers of the Negative Bill please?

Can we have a response as to why you appear to think it is a UW reps role to point out that there are cheaper deals available with other suppliers and not the rival suppliers role to promote them to the customer? This seems to be a twisted view of competition.

Can we have a response as to whether you think it's right you are using private information on our password protected website?

I also see that I am not the only one waiting for responses to their questions - NigeWick and Carmine to name just two.

I love debating, it's great. You have some valid and fair points, and I acknowledge them, but in the interests of actually getting somewhere you must do the same when it is right to do so whether you are suit your argument or not. You just look small otherwise.

barneygumble

AvengerSeawolf wrote: »

As I and many others have agreed before - we aren't the cheapest and don't purport to be, however, there are many benefits to becoming a Club Member.

Funny that, the UW website states "Where would you like to start saving?"
Which to me means you need to be cheaper than supplier A, otherwise there are no savings to be made. The benefits of being a club member are quite apparent, you earn money for the distirbutor who referred you. Pyramid marketing at it's best.

I would also like to comment on the "we don't waste money on marketing" theory. French and Saunders did the ad for nothing then? Of course not

jimexbox

AvengerSeawolf wrote: »

1) I daresay that most of the spammers on this forum you mention are in the vast majority simply brand new and over-enthusiastic, perhaps even a little naive (see SwanJon's post).

Or we could just call a spade a spade.

UW have some of the most expensive tariffs on offer anywhere in the UK. For some unfathomable reason you refuse to accept this. I agree that if you shop where UW tell you to shop, it is possible to reduce this expensive tarrif to a more acceptable level. Though not a good place to start in the first place.

Then we have your infamous triple guarantee which with judicious terms and conditions rules out dual fuel and Internet tariffs, even though the vast majority of UW customers go dual fuel and Internet billing is pushed by your reps. A strange paradox which UW folk around here find perfectly acceptable. When in reality its a sales tool used to push an expensive product to an unwary 'friend', makes 'em feel all cosy thinking a 'guarantee' is there for their benefit when we all know the real purpose.

Quentin

AvengerSeawolf wrote: »

Can we have a response as to whether you think it's right you are using private information on our password protected website?

As you will know, the site only introduced their "secret" password recently. (After the leaks you refer to were quoted here).

The password protection came after the investigative revelations were made both here and elsewhere on the net. The site you now want secret conducted a campaign against this website in general and MSE Martin in particular. If you start to play dirty games, expect the flak to follow.

(In any case, how do you expect a site open to thousands and thousands of uw reps to remain a secret?)

The links posted to the revealing videos are not protected. If you don't want us to see them, then take it up with the website concerned. Though why wouldn't you want us to know the matters that have been revealed? Are you ashamed of some of the techniques revealed? In any case the videos are plastered all over the net (some by Jez Tromans himself - owner of the "secret" uw training camp website and a uw marketing director)

And bear in mind the revelation on here about criminal in your midst forcing a show at cleaning up the act didn't come from there!