Osborne plans lower public sector salaries outside of the south

pqrdef

I've done this experiment for real. I've worked in a school where the kids were divided into 7 ability bands, with 2 parallel classes in each band. So for all of my teaching there was a parallel class of matched ability being taught by another teacher. And I was the crap teacher, but my lot's results were never any worse than the other lot's, even when the other lot had the brilliant inspirational charismatic guy. When it came to sacking me for incompetence, they'd have got no support from the marks.

Kids are very resilient, but it cuts both ways. The teacher can have a brilliant thing going in the classroom, but when he's not in the room it's like he hasn't taught them anything. The best trained dog can be useless without its handler. What kids will do for the teacher and what they'll do for themselves are quite different things.

ruggedtoast

I haven't read much of the eight pages of this thread but let me take a guess.

- There was an OP about the government saving money by reducing salaries for people defined by arbitrary criteria concerning where they live, rather than what job they do or how good they are at it

- A few board members said it was unfair.

- Vastly more board members insisted that public sector workers are all parasites who should be fired immediately and made to eat coal and wear rags.

Koicarp

The current system in the NHS is very simple and cheap to implement. The dept of health submits it's offer of pay rises to the independant pay review body along with supporting evidence. The Unions then submit their request with their supporting evidence, and the pay review body makes the decision.
Under localised pay we could have HR departments and unions negotiating in each trust, which will take far more hours and cause staff/manager conflict.

chewmylegoff

StevieJ wrote: »

Who are they?

Haven't you seen them? Hordes of teachers on long term sick pay popping up and ruining every thread with their boasting about getting loads of free cash for pretending to be stressed? Happens all the time........

ILW

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Haven't you seen them? Hordes of teachers on long term sick pay popping up and ruining every thread with their boasting about getting loads of free cash for pretending to be stressed? Happens all the time........

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6014834

How about this, from a teachers body

More than a quarter of respondents said they had taken at least one day off because of stress in the previous 12 months.

More than one in ten called in sick for between two and five days during the same period, the poll of 1,000 teachers for Teachers TV found.

A similar poll in 2007, also commissioned by the TV channel, found that 13 per cent of teachers had taken sick leave due to stress.

chewmylegoff

Doesn't seem to be stressed teachers posting on this website?

ILW

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be stressed teachers posting on this website?

It would take me too long to find the posts. But the linked article does somewhat illustrate my point.

Thrugelmir

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I haven't read much of the eight pages of this thread but let me take a guess.

- There was an OP about the government saving money by reducing salaries for people defined by arbitrary criteria concerning where they live, rather than what job they do or how good they are at it

- A few board members said it was unfair.

- Vastly more board members insisted that public sector workers are all parasites who should be fired immediately and made to eat coal and wear rags.

The reality is that if growth does not meet the OBR's expectations over the next four years. That an additional £45 billion of either cost saving or tax revenue will have to be introduced to fund the shortfall.

You can argue over the semantics till the cows come home. The bottom line is that in the UK we are either overpaid or award ourselves more benefits that we can afford.

The argument is over who pays for it. At the moment the I'm Alright Jack holds the mainstream media line. At a point though there has to be a light bulb moment.

noodle_doodle

I haven't read any of this thread, because I've got better things to do frankly ;-), buuuuttt...

I wonder if anyone's made the point that one group of regionalised public sector employees are MPs? I wonder if they're going to get regionalised pay, after all we're all in it together right?

(This is pretty much a great question to ask over any proposed public sector !!!!!!!! emanating from westminster. Will it work the same for MPs? if not, it's a con job.)

Secondly, how does high wages for teachers, lecturers, police, doctors, firemen etc make it harder for private sector firms? Private schools pay teachers more in wages and benefits, doctors always get more for private work and I've yet to hear of a private fire service...

Thirdly, this could just as well be used to argue for increasing public sector pay in london and the south-east. Paying less for teachers in the NE just means there's less incentive for teachers to work there, or go into teaching full stop.

In the end, it's not tackling the problem of a geographically skewed economy, but reinforcing it. Shift out central government to other parts of the country instead.

noodle_doodle

ILW wrote: »

Alternatively, if two teachers are given classes of similar intake and at the end of a year, one of the classes is performing clearly better than the other. In a private school the poorer performing teacher would probably be sacked. This would not happen in the state sector, hence the better teachers are dragged down by the less effective.

To be fair, that's utter swearwords

If private schools did that, the turnover in staff would be massive, and also extremely disruptive, and actually degrade pupils performance. Teachers are very expensive, so what they do is actually try and improve teachers performance, believe it or not. Living in eburgh, what private schools seem to value above anything else is a desire for teachers to chuck themselves into extracurricular stuff. They pretty much know their almost uniformly bright and intelligent intake are going to do well regardless, and a nice duke of edinburgh gold award sticks it up the oiks from the local high school who get the same marks when it comes to uni admission guff. (Disclaimer: I don't teach before you ask, but my wife does, but in a LA school)