Osborne plans lower public sector salaries outside of the south

vivatifosi

This is a story that will run in all the papers tomorrow. Looks like it will affect nurses, teachers, etc. National pay rates to be scrapped possibly starting with new starters in the public sector (I'm watching the newspaper review but not all out yet so don't know whether the new starter bit's true).

Can only link to Guardian version at the moment - they have been the first to get their story up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/16/public-servants-poorer-regions-lower-pay

Snippets:

...The chancellor will argue that public sector pay should mimic the private sector and be more reflective of local economies. He intends to start the process in three Whitehall departments in the coming financial year, as part of a phased introduction...

...The controversy over the top rate of tax will only be deepened by the revelation that the chancellor wants to press ahead with localised public sector pay. The Treasury will announce that 140,000 posts in the public sector will be the first to be subject to the new rules.

The first posts to be considered for localised pay are the 100,000 staff in the Department for Work and Pensions; 21,000 posts in the Home Office, including Border Agency staff; and 16,000 staff in the Department of Transport, including the DVLA in Swansea...

A._Badger

Is there a problem with this? It seems quite reasonable to me.

RUN_RABBIT_RUN

on the upside - this should reduce the public sector wage bill over time

on the downside - pay peanuts, get monkeys

vivatifosi

A._Badger wrote: »

Is there a problem with this? It seems quite reasonable to me.

I'm not sure. If its phased in for new workers, then that's more likely ok as people will know what to expect when they apply. If people have to take really deep pay cuts then that could hurt a lot.

For example, in local government some locations have moved away from national bargaining agreements already. In practice where I work that means a loss of about 8% on a low salary, with the effect negligible on higher salaries/those with no antisocial hours (loss of enhanced pay). Now that's in the south. My concern is that councils in the north may cut by more and it could really hurt people with commitments. However the devil is in the detail and as yet there isn't enough out there to know what the detail is.

ETA: another concern I have is that high skill workers, such as doctors, may be less inclined to move to areas where they know pay is less. I'd want to have a better idea of the impact and would be concerned about potentially unforseen circumstances such as health poverty due to the inability to attract the right candidates. At this stage I don't know whether that would be a red herring.

It will however be very interesting to see - if this goes through - what impact it has on nationalist movements in Scotland, Wales and NI where there are large public sectors.

PaulF81

RUN_RABBIT_RUN wrote: »

on the upside - this should reduce the public sector wage bill over time

on the downside - pay peanuts, get monkeys

they already do have monkeys. hopefully this will whip the scots up into a fury. And then we can repeal the barnett formula.

Thrugelmir

RUN_RABBIT_RUN wrote: »

on the upside - this should reduce the public sector wage bill over time

on the downside - pay peanuts, get monkeys

Why should say a nurse get £30k for working in say Maidenhead (very expensive part of the country) and the same in Halifax.

You don't get the same level pay in private industry.

vivatifosi

Finally there are some more links up:

Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/9149748/National-pay-rates-will-be-scrapped-in-budget.html

FT:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b89b6300-6f8c-11e1-b3f9-00144feab49a.html

It looks now like it will be a long term freeze until public sector salaries come into line with private sector ones.

Graham_Devon

Cynical I know, but I'm just sat here wondering how long it will be before the u-turn.

I do worry a little bit about protecting the south east again. There seems to be far too much focus on not rocking the boat in the South East and leaving everywhere else to just get on with it.

It's very difficult to compare public sector jobs with private sector. How do you compare a policeman, nurse, civil service worker, DEFRA worker, food inspector etc with the private sector?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just don't think it will actually carry through.

I also don't understand why Doctors and Dentists will be left as they are?

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I do worry a little bit about protecting the south east again. There seems to be far too much focus on not rocking the boat in the South East and leaving everywhere else to just get on with it.

The budget deficit issue isn't solved yet. Difficult decisions have to be made.

The South East isn't immune to a dip.

Graham_Devon

I agree.

But I do take issue when it comes to living costs. For instance, a person living in the city of London, who will be on better wages, pays less for a Band E property, then I pay for a Band A.

They pay less for transport.

They pay less for water.

Is any of this taken into account?

While I'm not against the idea, I just feel we should be mindful not to alienate the south east from the rest of the country too much.

Will MP's receive less based on their location? I think we can guess the answer.

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I agree.

But I do take issue when it comes to living costs. For instance, a person living in the city of London, who will be on better wages, pays less for a Band E property, then I pay for a Band A.

They pay less for transport.

They pay less for water.

Is any of this taken into account?

While I'm not against the idea, I just feel we should be mindful not to alienate the south east from the rest of the country too much.

Will MP's receive less based on their location? I think we can guess the answer.

As the old Chinese proverb says. "A man who wishes to move a mountain starts with the smallest stones first."

This is only the beginning of the end.

There'll be more to come. There's no alternative.