Osborne plans lower public sector salaries outside of the south

vivatifosi

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And this is where I think the problems will arise. I can't see private sector workforces keeping pay the same, while the public sector around them sees employee pay fall. The private sector will, I should imagine, re-align their pay also.

Why pay more when you don't have to? This has been going on for ages now and has been getting worse with the introduction of welfare credits which tops up incomes.

Theres also the case that many out of the South East will live further from their workplaces, meaning higher costs of commuting each day. With the lack of available transport, this reduces options.

I was reading comments the other day on an article about petrol costs, and someone in London was suggesting the good old "use a bike, or get an oyster card like we have to". The lack of understanding outside of London is very obvious.

My concern Graham, as someone who lives in what we would consider the South East (but the government calls Eastern Region), is that salaries are falling in the South East too. DH's firm has reduced salaries massively for new starters and as I mentioned before, where I work in local govt salaries are frozen but other benefits have been withdrawn, with the effect to the low paid about an 8% drop in salary. This matters less for us as we have other sources of income, however I do think that there is a lot of wage adjustment going on at the moment and there could be more of a race to the bottom.

Also you have to bear in mind the cost of commuting in the South East. For those travelling into London the cost before anything else is paid for is about £100 per week and up for anyone that doesn't have access to a tube line, plus an extra c£20 per week to park our car at the station. Also, our roads are more congested - a statistic I saw was that roads in Hertfordshire are 20% busier than the national average (this was presented to me by local govt at a Hertfordshire business forum), so while our journeys may not be as long, we still spend a lot in petrol because we are spending time in traffic jams and there is often no public transport to where we want to get to.

Going4TheDream

And once salaires have been lowered wait for the privatisation of various parts or running of by 3rd party companies

DVLA & JSA as one of the first areas to face cut and I wouldnt be surprised to see the likes of Capita in there running either or for a fixed cost within 2 years.

Graham_Devon

I'm still wondering why a doctor (which I assume include all consultants) or dentist won't be affected by this, yet the very people they work physically alongside, the nurses, the healthcare assistants, the midwives, the admin staff (and could NOT do their job without) will be forced to take the cut in wages based on localities.

I cannot see any reason for this, other than protecting the already better paid.

vivatifosi

Going4TheDream wrote: »

And once salaires have been lowered wait for the privatisation of various parts or running of by 3rd party companies

DVLA & JSA as one of the first areas to face cut and I wouldnt be surprised to see the likes of Capita in there running either or for a fixed cost within 2 years.

I hadn't thought of that but its a very good point. The private sector has already started winning contracts for parts of their services or similar services such as fine processing. It isn't a very big leap to see them taking over parts.

RUN_RABBIT_RUN

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm still wondering why a doctor (which I assume include all consultants) or dentist won't be affected by this, yet the very people they work physically alongside, the nurses, the healthcare assistants, the midwives, the admin staff (and could NOT do their job without) will be forced to take the cut in wages based on localities.

I cannot see any reason for this, other than protecting the already better paid.

don't doctors and dentists have a separate nhs contract which governs their pay and conditions?

vivatifosi

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm still wondering why a doctor (which I assume include all consultants) or dentist won't be affected by this, yet the very people they work physically alongside, the nurses, the healthcare assistants, the midwives, the admin staff (and could NOT do their job without) will be forced to take the cut in wages based on localities.

I cannot see any reason for this, other than protecting the already better paid.

I think the argument is that they wouldn't move there otherwise. What I find interesting though is that this is happening alongside the cutting of the 50% tax rate and yet nobody has really kicked up about that yet. I can see the logic in the cut in taxes btw as it isn't raising as much, but it does come across as a bit of a PR disaster when the government says "well we will cut the taxes to you rich people, but hey you poor northerners, we're coming after your salaries". Obviously it's being done for the budget, but the timing isn't good.

Going4TheDream

vivatifosi wrote: »

I hadn't thought of that but its a very good point. The private sector has already started winning contracts for parts of their services or similar services such as fine processing. It isn't a very big leap to see them taking over parts.

Ok getting a new tax disc which you do on line or applying for a new licence it wont probably make too much difference to the end user, we already see Capita running the congestion charge in London, however I am not so sure about something like JSA etc where in reality people rely on it to survive.

You stop being a person and start becoming a KPI

vivatifosi

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Ok getting a new tax disc which you do on line or applying for a new licence it wont probably make too much difference to the end user, we already see Capita running the congestion charge in London, however I am not so sure about something like JSA etc where in reality people rely on it to survive.

You stop being a person and start becoming a KPI

I think there is a better fit to the DVLA, however with JSA there must be back room processing units and that's where there would be (assuming of course that they haven't already been outsourced). I agree though, I wouldn't like to see JSA being decided by a private company - not that it has been suggested - as it is a bit too close to the whole A4E fiasco for comfort.

Graham_Devon

vivatifosi wrote: »

I think the argument is that they wouldn't move there otherwise. What I find interesting though is that this is happening alongside the cutting of the 50% tax rate and yet nobody has really kicked up about that yet. I can see the logic in the cut in taxes btw as it isn't raising as much, but it does come across as a bit of a PR disaster when the government says "well we will cut the taxes to you rich people, but hey you poor northerners, we're coming after your salaries". Obviously it's being done for the budget, but the timing isn't good.

But not all doctors and dentists originate from London and move out. So it seems a weird argument. I'm thinking this is more to do with their NHS changes. Keep doctors onside. VERY cynical of me. But that's what I have learnt from governments.

brook2jack

RUN_RABBIT_RUN wrote: »

don't doctors and dentists have a separate nhs contract which governs their pay and conditions?

Actually very few dentists (other than those in hospitals,armed services, or community) are paid a salary. Those in NHS practice receive monies which is used to fund every aspect of running a practice. Because of the increase in practice running costs , and the near freezing of contract levels in the last five years this has resulted in a pay cut. 5.8% in the last financial year alone.