Osborne plans lower public sector salaries outside of the south

vivatifosi

Joe_Bloggs wrote: »

The BBC have gone / are nearly gone to Salford. The HMRC went to the North east England. DVLC is in Swansea. What are the wages in Afghanistan ? This policy is electoral suicide if it is true.
J_B.

The move of government bodies from London and the South East started years ago (about 2004 IIRC) under the Lyons Review and Labour. This is a different initiative but the two arguably sit quite comfortably alongside each other.

Wookster

Unions are opposed to this 'cruel' plan.

Therefore it must be a good idea. I hope it leads to a number of government departments relocating out of London in the medium term to benefit from lower costs.

olly300

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'm still wondering why a doctor (which I assume include all consultants) or dentist won't be affected by this, yet the very people they work physically alongside, the nurses, the healthcare assistants, the midwives, the admin staff (and could NOT do their job without) will be forced to take the cut in wages based on localities.

I cannot see any reason for this, other than protecting the already better paid.

I know the pay for hospital doctors and state teachers has a basic level then they have allowances added on. (GPs are different.)

So a doctor who works in a hospital in a social deprived area in inner London gets more than a doctor who works in a hospital in leafy Surrey. The doctor in Surrey will likely see less patients and the patients they do see are unlikely to have acute conditions which the hospital will treat. If the patient has an acute condition they are often transferred to a London hospital.

As a state teacher if you work in Inner London you earn the most and then slightly less if you work in Outer London. However if you work outside what is considered Outer London your pay drops as you lose the area allowance on your salary. In theory working outside London you will get easier pupils to teach but this isn't due as some recent migrant populations have settled just outside London.

However at the moment there isn't a shortage of teachers apart from in some specialist secretary school areas, there is actually an oversupply. This means there are some trainee teachers are doing supply work or are working in shops because they cannot get a permanent teaching job.

Doctors salaries do reflect they are working in a more difficult discipline or one with less family friendly hours. There is actually no shortage of doctors in family friendly disciplines but one in disciplines where the hours aren't family friendly. There is also not a shortage of trainee doctors.

So while on the surface it seems that the government is protecting the high paid in terms on salary they aren't. They are also fighting with them over their pensions like everyone else.

pqrdef

Yorkie1 wrote: »

I don't understand a) how they will find the comparators, and b) how broadly they will be based geographically.

There don't have to be formulas. Managers recruiting staff will have to pay whatever it takes.

The result is that depressed areas will become even more depressed. Where the government needs to put some money in, it will take money out. If there's a national shortage of nurses or midwives or maths teachers, the shortage will concentrate in low-wage areas. And so on.

pqrdef

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why should say a nurse get £30k for working in say Maidenhead (very expensive part of the country) and the same in Halifax.

You don't get the same level pay in private industry.

There are advantages to living in expensive areas. That's why they're expensive.

For instance, if the nurse has kids of average intelligence, she can send them to bog-standard schools in Maidenhead and they may well go on to university. That won't happen in Halifax.

You're arguing that people should enjoy the advantages of expensive areas at no effective cost, because the employer pays. This already happens in the private sector.

olly300

pqrdef wrote: »

There are advantages to living in expensive areas. That's why they're expensive.

For instance, if the nurse has kids of average intelligence, she can send them to bog-standard schools in Maidenhead and they may well go on to university. That won't happen in Halifax.

Not necessarily.

I know from the people I've worked with in the Berkshire area they live close to poor areas and have to fight to get their kids into good secondary schools. By "good" I mean there are enough parents in the school who give a damn about their kids' education.

Likewise in my borough there are many good primary schools but apart from one or two secondary schools the rest are poor. Why? The rich residents sent their kids to private or public schools without thinking.

StevieJ

Next step, gradually reduced minimum wage as you move north, what is the betting that the cheerleaders for this policy are not northern based public sector workers

Koicarp

In the NHS there are already three levels of "london" weighting: http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/372992/004106.pdf
I'm a band 7 nurse specialist in a poor ex mining town- covering nearly 300 square miles. My counterparts in the next "big city" sheffield- are paid band 8a, because living costs there are much higher than here. So it's already happening and has since I came into nursing 20 years ago.
You will also find many band 6 staff nurse posts in big cities, whilst in the towns that would be a sister's band.

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

Next step, gradually reduced minimum wage as you move north, what is the betting that the cheerleaders for this policy are not northern based public sector workers

The fact that the labour market is turning global still isn't registering.

We've got to loose our island mentality in order to compete going forward.

Koicarp

StevieJ wrote: »

Next step, gradually reduced minimum wage as you move north, what is the betting that the cheerleaders for this policy are not northern based public sector workers

Why would public sector workers want minimum wage reductions? When it was brought in, our porters, cleaners and some kitchen staff needed a pay rise as they would otherwise have been below it. They are the groups our hospitals cannot do without, at 5am on a sunday morning all three groups a working hard in our hospitals, whilst most health professionals sleep soundly in their beds.
This government should be concentrating improving value for money, and reducing weekend death rates by having a 7 days per week health service, with all services working at full capacity, rather than the current five day service.