Osborne plans lower public sector salaries outside of the south

antrobus

Emy1501 wrote: »

Private schools have to follow the same employment law as any other private company surely? You can't simply sack someone for poor work.

Yes you can.

Emy1501 wrote: »

You need to put them on development plans etc and show that you have done everything to assist any problems they have. You are probably looking at 18-24 months for this.

There is no such legal requirement.

pqrdef wrote: »

... Every school has a wide range of teachers, from brilliant to barely adequate, and always did, and it never makes much difference who teaches who. .

Yes it does.

Prof Simon Burgess, from Bristol University, who researched the impact of a bad teacher on pupil performance, told Panorama that he was surprised by the gap between the results of children with teachers ranked in the top 5% on ability and those in the bottom 5%.

"If you took all these people out, stopped them from teaching the children and replaced them even with just average teachers, that would be something like half a grade per pupil," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10590460

And that's just the first thing that popped up on Google. It's actually the case that the easiest, simplest, and cheapest way of improving education is to get rid of bad teachers. There is no surprise there, the easiest, simplest, and cheapest way of improving any service is to ensure that the people delivering said service aren't rubbish at so doing.

Emy1501

antrobus wrote: »

Yes you can.




There is no such legal requirement.



Yes it does.

Prof Simon Burgess, from Bristol University, who researched the impact of a bad teacher on pupil performance, told Panorama that he was surprised by the gap between the results of children with teachers ranked in the top 5% on ability and those in the bottom 5%.

"If you took all these people out, stopped them from teaching the children and replaced them even with just average teachers, that would be something like half a grade per pupil," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10590460

And that's just the first thing that popped up on Google. It's actually the case that the easiest, simplest, and cheapest way of improving education is to get rid of bad teachers. There is no surprise there, the easiest, simplest, and cheapest way of improving any service is to ensure that the people delivering said service aren't rubbish at so doing.

In all the companies I have worked for no one has been sacked for poor work. I know various family members who have gone to private school and have kids at private school and teachers there have only been sacked for gross misconduct.

I know the head of a an expensive private school in the south east who said about the problems of getting rid of poor teachers.

My employers including one of the failed banks have at various times wanted sack people for poor work and have found it near impossible at times.

The idea by some that the vast majority of public sector works are useless and employed simply because they can't get a job in the private sector is a nonsense.

There will be as many useless workers in the private sector as public and that includes education.

PaulF81

Its the school's fault for not having a defined appraisal system built into contract.

StevieJ

hallmark wrote: »

Really? Every single bookmaker in Britain disagrees with you, they all have the Conservatives as favourites:

http://www.oddschecker.com/specials/politics-and-election/next-uk-general-election/most-seats


Since you're so sure of yourself this is an excellent chance for you to put your money where your mouth is. Of course, mouthing off on a bulletin board is one thing, actually backing it up is another.

I take it you have invested then

Going4TheDream

Emy1501 wrote: »

My employers including one of the failed banks have at various times wanted sack people for poor work and have found it near impossible at times.

The idea by some that the vast majority of public sector works are useless and employed simply because they can't get a job in the private sector is a nonsense.

There will be as many useless workers in the private sector as public and that includes education.

It is always better for a company to demonstrate that they have done everything possible to solve the issues prior to sacking, it tends to prevent claims for unfair dismissal.

I think part of the problem with a lot of public sector workers is that they have been cossested by the unions and if there are no chips in the canteen will go on strike (well not quite but you know what I mean) .

Private sector workers are paid by the profits of a company, not a bottemless pit of public money, and need to step up to the mark quickly when things change, be flexible and adaptable. A slightly extreme example, the group of workers in Sheffield who worked on the 8th? floor actually got lift time to get to their work on time, and it had to be 'negotiated' away during changes . For goodness sakes in the private sector it would be a case of ' your hours are ........make sure you are on time' no faffing around giving people 6 minutes lift time.

It is attitude that private sector employers are concerned about, they want a can do attitude not a 'mm we will see what the unions say about that' attitude

MissMoneypenny

Emy1501 wrote: »

I have family and friends who send their kids to private school so they don't have to mix with kids from the local estate. 7-10k a year per child for primary.

You don't need to be a solicitor to have well behaved kids.

So what you claiming is that people who run their own business, have well behaved children? Really?

The point I was making was that when the farmers, builders etc started sending their children to private schools, many teachers saw children from these familes as "riff raff" compared to the other children they taught. Riff raff makes money too.

StevenMarks

Emy1501 wrote: »

In all the companies I have worked for no one has been sacked for poor work.

The last company I worked for got shot of four people in my eight years for poor performance. In one case he was called down to the managers office and never came back.

MissMoneypenny

Emy1501 wrote: »

You can though teach unqualified in a private school and I know a few unqualified teachers who have taught in the private sector

Yes, I know a few people who taught in private schools, but weren't qualified to teach in state schools.

MissMoneypenny

simongregson wrote: »

But please don't assume that the lowest common denominator represents all teachers. I know plenty with a doctorate.

I know a teacher who got a first from a top university, but I know others who failed their A levels, so went into teaching in primary schools. I also know others who didn't get a teaching qualification so they taught in private schools (no government funded pension).

One of my friend's daughters needed an A for Chemistry, but got a B. She cried and her chemistry told her, I know how you feel as I felt like that when I got a C in chemistry:eek:

MissMoneypenny

Emy1501 wrote: »

My employers including one of the failed banks have at various times wanted sack people for poor work and have found it near impossible at times.

Really? We find it quite easy to get rid of those that don't pull their weight. Plus once a year we get called into the office for either a bonus or a cardboard box to clear the desk and go.

I know police, teachers, council workers and civil servants who got a nice early, indexed lined pension for their bad back, stress or drink problems. One of those "stressed" teachers also claimed from a private health policy, but lost that when the private company put a PI on her and found her to be lying; but she kept the teachers pension.

One policeman I know worked for 5 years (2 of those in the cadets) in his 20s and then went off on the sick with a bad back. Now in his 50s, that sick pension is work £1,500 per month. That back back has never stoped him running a garage and working on car engines, or driving cars up and down dunes and rough terrain or playing table tennis. He never had a medical from the Met to see if he really did have a bad back and the Met ignored complaints about this with the evidence.