cemetary, council and removal of personal obejcts from grave.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

sorry if this is in the wrong section. move if necessary.

as title.

our council caerphilly county borough, has now started to enforce a passed bill by cabinate of no personalisation of grave sites. bedwellty cemetary and others affected.

this came as a shock really as there was no information posted to people in the area of each cemetary that this was being enforced, or a local rag notifaction. i didnt even know cabinate passed this in 2008 aparently.

my parters mothers grave has been affected, we had solar lights and pillows on the grave itself wich have been removed, apparently there should be recycling bin with the items in for loved ones to collect when visiting but there isnt one with the items in at my OH grave. they have taken a layer of top soil off the grave site removing any stone that we had placed to mark the grave site. this is hugely distressing to my OH, its not the cost apect of this that has upset us but morally i believe taking personal items it a straw too farr.

this passed cabinate and now people who have young ones burried there cannot personalise their graves with that persons favourate items such as football reef decorations, photo frames laminted cuddly bears etc nothing they are being removed and placed in a recycling bin.

this has had a mass effect on the community, because this has been carried out with no respect, dilligence or morals. some are complaining that whilst these items have been removed they have been broken in the process or items missing.

my OH is in peices, as there wasnt much on her grave to begin with, just gravel stone a boundry and lights and a pillow and flower pot, everything has no gone except for the flower pot and the grave looks fresh and has brought back memories of her mum passing and the sore and upsetting time she was lost and burried.

shame on this council, and shame on those who carried out this horrendous clean up did they not think how this would affect people and do it with respect and care, your not cleaning out an attick !!!!!!!! have some respect.

rant over.

Tiddlywinks

Most cemetaries have rules about what you can and can't have on a grave - you are made aware of it when you purchase the plot. I've just had to read some when buying my mum's plot. With mum's it dictates the size and colour of the stone and that the area must not have a surround - apparently it is to keep it neat and to help with grass cutting etc. There is an area set aside for children's graves and they do allow more trinkets and things there for the first few months after burial.

I agree that the council should have posted a notice somewhere to give people time to clear their own areas but maybe they posted a notice at the cemetary entrance?

To be honest, I tend to dislike the extra stuff people put on graves - I'm a bit old fashioned like that so I like the "uniform" policy - but, if you feel that the local council has implemented this with a lack of respect then you should complain.

MrsWoolfe

I do sympathise and really hope your OH isn't finding this whole thing too upsetting though I know it will be hard

We had something similar with my Dad's grave last year about 6mths after he died- the thing that upset us most was that we were not warned, and that other plots surrounding ours had far more on theirs which was left alone, nothing had been said to start with and they were there for a few months with no issues but all of sudden a letter through the door to say that they had removed things.

Only thing I can suggest is to perhaps get in touch with someone at the council/cemetary to say how much this has upset you and how you would have liked things to be handled- if enough people do so it might at least make them think about their approach to something so sensitive!

MrsWoolfe

atrixblue.-MFR-.

council claim they sent plot owners letters back in december and admit no signage on entrance or exit of the cemetary, nor posting it in the local rag.
but the media contacted the customer relations side of the coucil and they cannot find any record of any such letters being despatched.

the media were present when my OH went up there, and a council rep, there was a childs grave there only been there 2 weeks and the council removed everything on that site also to the anger upset and shock of that childs parent, when asking the council rep that the plots are owned by them he returned with "you own whats 6 feet under not whats on top thats ours" "youve seen the american grave sites on tv thats what we want this cemetary to look like!!"

there were going on 90 people there from all walks of life, one chap has 5 members of family there keeps all the graves nice and tidy 2 had nothing on them but were kept neet and tidy and they removed the grass and top soil from them he's desgusted as they disturbed the grave sites for no reason!.

Welshwoofs

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

this came as a shock really as there was no information posted to people in the area of each cemetary that this was being enforced, or a local rag notifaction. i didnt even know cabinate passed this in 2008 aparently.

In all fairness to them, the information is right there on their website. I know nothing about Caerphilly's graveyard policies but I found a pdf with them on in 30 seconds:
http://www.caerphilly.gov.uk/Pdf/Community_Living/cemetery-regulations.pdf

I'm afraid to say that I think the responsibility is on the grave owner to familiarise themselves with the regulations rather than expect the council to contact you personally about them.

my parters mothers grave has been affected, we had solar lights and pillows on the grave itself wich have been removed, apparently there should be recycling bin with the items in for loved ones to collect when visiting but there isnt one with the items in at my OH grave. they have taken a layer of top soil off the grave site removing any stone that we had placed to mark the grave site. this is hugely distressing to my OH, its not the cost apect of this that has upset us but morally i believe taking personal items it a straw too farr.

They do give warning in the regulations that this is what they will do:

"From the date of the implementation of these regulations, no memorial, metal vase, railing or fencing, kerb, shrubs or trees, ornament or other structure shall be erected in the cemetery. The Council will give twenty-eight days notice the the holder of the Exclusive Right of Burial in the plot to remove such items. If this notice is not complied with, the Council may remove such unauthorised items, which will be stored safely in the cemetery for subsequent collection and re-instate the plot to a lawn type grave as specified in these regulations. The Council does not accept any liability for the damage or loss of such unauthorised items."

Now it seems to me that the only gripe you could have against them is the part highlighted. Did they give the owner of the grave 28 days notice to remove the items?

Gloomendoom

Welshwoofs wrote: »

In all fairness to them, the information is right there on their website. I know nothing about Caerphilly's graveyard policies but I found a pdf with them on in 30 seconds.

In all fairness to the distressed, not everybody is internet savvy or even has ready access to the internet.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Welshwoofs wrote: »

In all fairness to them, the information is right there on their website. I know nothing about Caerphilly's graveyard policies but I found a pdf with them on in 30 seconds:
http://www.caerphilly.gov.uk/Pdf/Community_Living/cemetery-regulations.pdf

I'm afraid to say that I think the responsibility is on the grave owner to familiarise themselves with the regulations rather than expect the council to contact you personally about them.



They do give warning in the regulations that this is what they will do:

"From the date of the implementation of these regulations, no memorial, metal vase, railing or fencing, kerb, shrubs or trees, ornament or other structure shall be erected in the cemetery. The Council will give twenty-eight days notice the the holder of the Exclusive Right of Burial in the plot to remove such items. If this notice is not complied with, the Council may remove such unauthorised items, which will be stored safely in the cemetery for subsequent collection and re-instate the plot to a lawn type grave as specified in these regulations. The Council does not accept any liability for the damage or loss of such unauthorised items."

Now it seems to me that the only gripe you could have against them is the part highlighted. Did they give the owner of the grave 28 days notice to remove the items?

no they havent written to anyone. there were 90 people there today who all state they have not had any information via letter about removal of such items. i cant see the postal service losing in excess of a hundred letters from the coucil. they even have a news paper with information wich this clean up was never mentioned.

how many people visit the website to specifically look up this info on burials. that would be like your coucil coming into your garden putting your stuff in the recycling then when challenged tell you the info is on thier website, how peeved would you be and how more peeved would you be if it was a grave site of your relative.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/237848692968538/ look at some of the photo's here on this public petition on face book.police are taking this matter seriously.

meritaten

Thats awful hun - I know l........ and her sisters and bro's only put that plaque on the grave last year - why didnt the council tell them then that policy was changing? I also know that many other graves up there have 'personal' items on.

TBH - I rather like the personalising of a relatives grave - it may be tacky to some people - but it shows that members of the family are remembering and still care for their loved one!

I also dislike the idea of uniformity in graveyards - since I visited the graveyard in france for those killed overseas during the war all those same gravestones as far as the eye can see - it made the occupants of those graves nothing but a number on a map - it totally depersonalised them and i found it very distressing - even though I was only 12 at the time!

you are right that the local councils own newsletter hasnt said a word - just got out the last few issues! no mention of it!

I would actually go and complain to your local councillor about this.
Then I would complain to the police if the property taken from the graves isnt available for you to collect.

To me - this is desecratation of a grave in a big way............isnt that illegal?

Mrs_atrixblue.-MFR-.

as my OH as stated its disgusting on how they can say that i only own whats 6ft under and they own whats on top they have taken solo lights and butterflys that my children my neices and nepthews have put on there as they call it they're nanny wendys garden and its heart breaken to see them upset over it . in the deed it says nothing about what they have tryed to say.. they want to try and make it look like america graveyard :mad: but why should we be like anyother country ? im very hurt as its a comfort to me to know that my mum as lights etc on there to show shes not alone . there were alot of graves trashed today and alot of people greiving over they're loved ones. CCBC should be ashamed of themself its disrespecful of them . i have phoned the local police and they will log it as the criminal damage caused by ccbc,, police said more people to stand the ground . will stop them damaging more grave,,,,there is a law 2 protect us,,n criminal damage to a grave has a long sentance,,,,we need to take action now,,,xxxxwe r all deeply devastated x:mad: how yeh as i quote no notice no letters nothing ?

carefullycautious

I know this is emotive but I would do away with grave yards and would like to see either a flower meadow or trees being planted in memory of the person. Some where to sit and contemplate and remember.

I do think that all the extras should never have been allowed in the first place

meritaten

carefullycautious wrote: »

I know this is emotive but I would do away with grave yards and would like to see either a flower meadow or trees being planted in memory of the person. Some where to sit and contemplate and remember.

I do think that all the extras should never have been allowed in the first place

I know this graveyard carefullycautious, it was really nice, surrounded by an old stone wall in some parts and trees and fields all around the other parts. very peaceful and serene - the objects people placed on graves didnt detract from that.
the headstones were all different too - but recently the council has had an edict on those.

Hun? I feel for you - its shameful what the council have done! am going up to have a look for myself tom. Gar has relatives buried there too! want to make sure that everything is ok with thier graves - if not will inform their next of kin! I am sure they know nothing about this.