Ar rant (with apologies) - driving in snow.

Crabman

Sgt_Pepper wrote: »

Do you have a source for that?

Yes, a police officer with nearly 20 years of RPU experience.

Sgt_Pepper_2

Crabman wrote: »

Yes, a police officer with nearly 20 years of RPU experience.

So that's a no then.

Your source is wrong in these circumstances if he actually exists. Maybe he needs some retraining.

jase1

real1314 wrote: »

Those with substantially more than 2 brain cells have read and understood the highway code:-

"259 Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway.
You should:

give priority to traffic already on the motorway

check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane

not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder

stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway

remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking"

"264 You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs."

There's lots of things you "can" do, so long as you don't get caught by the plod. You may as well argue that you would run over chevrons & solid white lines at junctions.

The correct thing is to wait, according to the highway code and the law.

You've already seen this page mikey, perhaps this time you should try reading all of it, rather than just picking the one bit that suited you?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069862?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=highwaycode_motorways

:cool:

259 is separate from 264.

259 simply says that you should not use the hard shoulder when joining the motorway.

Joining a motorway at 0mph is monumentally stupid if the vehicles on the carriageway are doing 60+.

I would, and have, used the hard shoulder in situations such as this. And would do so again. I'd rather be endorsed than dead.

I've never heard anything so stupid as to bring up the "limit not a target" when it comes to sliproads. As 259 says, your 'target' is to match as closely as possible the prevailing speed of the carriageway you are joining.

If you are unsure, taking things slightly too quickly and braking to suit is safer than attempting to join 30mph below the prevailing speed and finding yourself unable to file in appropriately.

Finally, those lines at the end of the slip road are not the same as a "Give Way" junction. It is not assumed that drivers stop at the end of sliproads.

I have never in all my years of driving come up against a scenario where I cannot file in. Why? Because I have always been careful to match my speed with the motorway. If you can't manage that, you're a bad driver, it's as simple as that.

The one occasion I felt compelled to use the HS was in the dark, with a slight left arc immediately before the slip. There were trucks doing 55-60 in the inside lane and cars doing 70+ in the outside. I found myself caught behind someone travelling at 37mph across both lanes of the sliproad, who stopped at the end.

There was space to get out as well. To be honest, I did quite well not to go into the back of them, seeing as you have one eye on your offside when about to join a motorway.

I'll admit, my mistake was not overtaking when I had the chance, as a couple of others did. They appeared to be accelerating up until the last few hundred yards, and the car was powerful, so I made an incorrect judgement call.

Do you *seriously* think that starting from a standstill in those conditions wasn't dicing with death?

Like I say, put me in that situation again and I'll take the three points, if that's what it takes.

scooby75

Ignoring the fact that the thread was originally about driving in snow, i'm interested. All those who would not go into the hard shoulder. What would you do if you had broken down and were on the hard shoulder ready to move off again?

Sgt_Pepper_2

scooby75 wrote: »

Ignoring the fact that the thread was originally about driving in snow, i'm interested. All those who would not go into the hard shoulder. What would you do if you had broken down and were on the hard shoulder ready to move off again?

Build up your speed on the hard shoulder, indicate and join when safe to do so.

pinkteapot

We drove home from Wiltshire to Essex (M4-M25-A12) late yesterday afternoon and it was lovely as there was very little traffic on the road compared to usual.

Only problem was the outside lane of the motorways was pretty hairy. The road surface itself was fine, but there was snow on the edge which at times covered part of the outside lane. So overtaking was "interesting" as the lane would randomnly get really narrow.

What did annoy me was that it seemed to make the middle-lane hoggers worse than usual. Fairly empty roads and on four-lane sections they were all in the third lane! WHY?! I only had one complete idiot. I was overtaking the third lane hoggers in the aforementioned iffy outside lane and doing, well, a reasonable speed shall we say. An Audi (naturally) raced up behind me and sat incredibly close until I pulled back in after overtaking. Based on my speed and the speed he came up/went past at, he was doing 110-120mph in a lane with an icy edge. Interesting.

Obukit

scooby75 wrote: »

Ignoring the fact that the thread was originally about driving in snow, i'm interested. All those who would not go into the hard shoulder. What would you do if you had broken down and were on the hard shoulder ready to move off again?

You mean in an emergency, which the hard shoulder is designed for? Use the hard shoulder to accelerate.

And for those who say joining 70mph traffic from standstill is risky enough to take 3 points for, what do you do at laybys on dual carriageways, where you have to join 70mph traffic from a standing/near standing start. Thousands do that every day without incident.

Sgt_Pepper_2

Obukit wrote: »

You mean in an emergency, which the hard shoulder is designed for? Use the hard shoulder to accelerate.

And for those who say joining 70mph traffic from standstill is risky enough to take 3 points for, what do you do at laybys on dual carriageways, where you have to join 70mph traffic from a standing/near standing start. Thousands do that every day without incident.

Or the breakdown areas on current motorways with hard shoulder running as lane 1.

AltheHibby

Re post 20: Tricky, the problem with moving over is that around my way they move over well before they need to. The worst I have seen is 6 miles at 50mph in the right hand lane of a 2 lane dual, simply because 6 miles later they were turning right at a roundabout. Me and Mrs theHibby refer to it as "drivelexia", a specific learning difficulty that affects road users in our part of Scotland. Even the Belgians drive better than our locals.

Re Scotland being foreign, if that arrogant little wotsit Salmond gets his way we will be. (but I still suspect we will be part of the UK no matter how he tries to skew the results)

ps what snow? We haven't got any (smirks and goes away...)

laughingboy

What about the plonkers driving with no lights on?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/06/article-2096586-119B9635000005DC-840_964x558.jpg