Absolutely mortified....how could she do this and why?*update*

mytimetoshine2012

teabag29 wrote: »

Ok deep breath........ Ive spent all morning on the phone. Been waiting for a call back from the social worker who came out to see me since 9.10 am when I got told she'd ring me in 10 mins....i've rang back 3 tmes and said its urgent but still nothing.

Rang the centre in notts about getting her asessed for pda, the accept self referal but also need an accompanying letter by a professional.

The psychologist is off for a month, paediatrician isnt in until wednesday and very hard to get hold of, cant get a doctors appt until friday but they he hasnt been very supportive anyway, camhs dont want to know and school are less than useless.

Took a gamble and rang the boss of the ep that saw dd last year, explained everything. He actually is very familiar with pda and says the asessment is a good idea and the centre is very good and reports are very thorough (even if she doesnt have that particular disorder they will highlight her difficulties and needs). Ep said he will ring them today to see what needs putting in the letter so hopefully I will get seen in June/july time. I was also advised to contact my mp and both myself and dd are being let down and see if she can help....i did this and i have an appt with her on wednesday.

Also rang s.services to request a carers asessment to get some respite care here n there to give me a break. They said i'd have to wait for the s.worker i saw on fri to ring me back. I explained shes part of the child protection team and she's already told me she doesnt deal with that side of things but they said she is who i need to speak to......i would if she'd blooming ring back. Think they getting annoyed with my calls now.

Husband came up with a good point lastnight echoed by the ep today. Dd seems to live in a fantasy world at times and its questionable whether she understands reality from fantasy. After watching soaps she brings things to life, e.g after a particular episode of coronation st she now has 2 imaginary friends called liz and jim. She also has an imaginary baby called amy (like eastenders). Then after the whole coronation street sian and sophie storyline she broke down and told me she was a lesbian. So i'm now wondering if after watching eastenders last week when ben told the police that his dad had done things that werent true....is this why she went to the school and lied that I abuse her maybe? I just dont know what to think anymore and she is so convincing when she says something that its very believable so i now have no clue when she is telling the truth and when she isnt.

I spoke to psycologist about the soaps thing but she advised not to stop her watching them just enforce the whole fact fiction thing to her....i do this but she doesnt get it. She will ask things like has so and so had the baby yet, i will explain its just a programme and not real and think shes understood and then she will say "so has she had the baby yet then or what"?

Not sure what my next move is, eagerly awaiting school home time to see how things have gone for her today. To make things worse i got a call from dd's primary school today to bring her some fresh clothes....she had wet herself!!! She hasn't done that since she was 2 and she is almost 10. Over the weekend dd1 (the oldest who post is about) told dd2 that she really got s.services involved because she wants her sent away and she hates her. Dd2 must be worried not surprisingly. We need to have a long chat tonight.

I was wondering if its worth applying to any charities to see if they would fund the asessment for pda to save me having to borrow the 3k, does anyone know of any charities or organisations that may consider this?

Hi Teabag,

I haven't posted before, but I have been reading all of your posts and the first thing I want to say is how well you are doing. We had to wrangle with all of the *services* and *agencies* to arrange care for family members before and trying to pin someone down is a nightmare.

I am very sorry to worry you but reading through the things that you say DD does makes me think of Schizophrenia, particluary paranoid delusional and the fact/fiction debate has just put the icing in the cake. I think sometimes people (social workers etc) try and put all behaviours under a label such as attachment problems and stop looking at the bigger picture. Could you have a look at the NHS website and ask your daughter some questions such as if she hears voices and that type of thing? In anycase it is worth raising with the next professional you see.

On the subject of getting help, one the people we were trying to get help for was schizoprenic and his behaviour was increasingly difficult to manage. But whilst we were politely trying to elicit help we got absolutely nowhere. It seems that you have to play hardball and emphasise strongly that you cannot be responsible for their safety or that of other members of the household. We had social workers round in a couple of hours when I demanded the name of the person of the phone and asked if they were going to be personally responsible for anything that happened. I also said that I had made a log of the number of times that I had contacted them and it was going on record. In reality perhaps nothing sinister would have happened but it got the job done. Buzz words which seem to make them sit up are 'duty of care' (theirs not yours), 'danger to self or others', 'wilful neglect' (again by them). You could also try writing to your MP (worked for one of his friends parents) or threatening to go to the press.

Again, I think you are doing really well, your daughter is very lucky to have such a kind, understanding Mum who is so willing to fight her corner.

MTTS

Cyril

TBH I take my hat off to anyone who can deal with a child like this.

My overriding concern is that irrespective of any ' syndromes' your daughter is or isn't suffering she is destroying the childhood of your other children and on that basis I would have her taken into short term care.This way the professionals can see first hand her bahavior and lies rather than rely on hearsay etc etc.

I also would be worried that some professional may believe her lies at some point and you'll end up arrested or your other kids taken into care for their safety and security.

You seem to be wholly relying on your daughter suffering some syndrome or other to try and justify her behaviour but she is clearly more capable and manipulative that you care to accept. You need to stop concentrating on her and consider the other 3 chuildren you have and their best interests.

As much as you don't want to for both yoursakes you need to get her into care. At the end of the day neither of you are leading happy lives at the moment so how much worse can a spell under professional help really be.

Hanging_by_a_thread

teabag29 wrote: »

Not sure what my next move is, eagerly awaiting school home time to see how things have gone for her today. To make things worse i got a call from dd's primary school today to bring her some fresh clothes....she had wet herself!!! She hasn't done that since she was 2 and she is almost 10. Over the weekend dd1 (the oldest who post is about) told dd2 that she really got s.services involved because she wants her sent away and she hates her. Dd2 must be worried not surprisingly. We need to have a long chat tonight.

I was wondering if its worth applying to any charities to see if they would fund the asessment for pda to save me having to borrow the 3k, does anyone know of any charities or organisations that may consider this?

When did you become aware that your eldest daughter told the younger daughter what I have highlighted above? Did this only come to your attention when she wet herself at school and they contacted you?

I am surprised that you think your eldest lives in a fantasy world. When it suits her she seems more than capable of thinking things through to cause maximum devastating effect. Not the actions of a child who has no grip on reality.

It doesn't appear that she has been made aware of what could have happened after the lies she told. Seeing as she relished telling her sibling why she got social services involved and what she hoped would be the outcome.

RacyRed

Teabag, this is written with love and concern after days and days of reading what you have written, thinking it through and not posting because I didn't want to cause you pain. But the incident with DD2 wetting herself because of the stress DD1 has put her under has tipped the balance for me.

teabag29 wrote: »

At 3.30 my son burst through the door crying saying he cant take anymore of dd and explained she had gone to all his mates and told them that he wets the bed and wears nappies and other vicious things...

Did you march DD1 to the school next day and make her admit to all of your son's friends that she had been lying?

... i got a call from dd's primary school today to bring her some fresh clothes....she had wet herself!!! She hasn't done that since she was 2 and she is almost 10. Over the weekend dd1 (the oldest who post is about) told dd2 that she really got s.services involved because she wants her sent away and she hates her. Dd2 must be worried not surprisingly...

Are you going to ensure that you sit both of your daughters down tonight and explain to DD1 that if she does anything like that again SHE will be the one taken away by social services? DD2 needs to hear you say that to DD1

Same day as the issue with your son comes this...

...Next dd came through the door in a terrible mood, she said she'd been speaking to the police at school and told them in her words "how I abuse her"........ I could not believe what I was hearing...

...She carried on ranting and raving and I waited till she had finished and spoke to her about why she keeps doing these things...

Deflection, she did something wicked to her brother and deflected attention away from it by doing something she knew would upset you even more.

......I couldnt believe what i was hearing. I felt like it was happening to someone else and I was watching from the outside, I still feel sick now and havent eaten a thing...

I imagine your DD2 and DS are feeling even worse. They are children, what has been happening will have an even greater impact on their young minds than it does on yours.

The next day we had an appt with the psychologist and I explained how she was angry with me and why, i didnt tell her what she said about me although i wish i had of done now.

Have you seriously asked yourself why you didn't mention it? Do you really think that hiding things as important as that from her psychologist is helping (protecting?) her?

...They asked about home life and she said it was good but when she gets frustrated she needs to take it out on someone so that someone was me...

I disagree, DD1 is making your entire family suffer. The nappy and social services issues are proof of that. If you humiliate her back the way she has caused such massive humiliation to her siblings you will learn something.

1. She proves to be incapable of empathy. If this is the case then making her apologise or telling her she will be the one to be put into care will mean little or nothing to her. She will be only mildly inconvenienced by the process but your son and younger daughter will feel reassured that they are as loved and protected by you as their older sister is. They will also be better able to cope with her if she attempts to be so wicked to them again.

2. She screams and cries, refusing to do it/accept it, implying that she does know exactly how much humiliation she subjected her siblings to. If this is the case she will learn that she can no longer get away with such behaviour and again it will benefit her siblings to see that their older sister does not have free reign to hurt them so much.

I'm going to sound very harsh now but I have to tell you that after reading this and your other threads I think that a lot of the problem lies with you.

You come over as being understandably terrified of DD1 being removed from you again. However, it seems that she realises and is using this relentlessly to manipulate you. Why shouldn't she? She is a child who has learnt that she can say or do things that can make you feel threatened without too much consequence to herself.

...dd found it all highly amusing, when she came in and saw them sitting on sofa she smirked at me again...

That says it all.

During the holidays can you send DD1 away to stay with relatives of friends for 3 or 4 weeks? You say she behaves well with other adults so it should be do-able? It will give you a chance to see what the dynamics of your family are without her influence. And I think it would really benefit your younger children.

Get it clear in your head how much of this she can help and how much she can't. While you are keeping back important facts from the professionals you cannot expect a proper diagnosis. The same goes for briefing her on what to say in assessments.

Teabag, can I suggest that you seek counselling yourself to enable you deal with your fear of your child being taken away from you again? It must have been terrible for you and perhaps you and your daughter will benefit from you working through it properly?

Hanging_by_a_thread

I agree with RacyRed 100%.

patchwork_cat

Hanging_by_a_thread wrote: »

I agree with RacyRed 100%.

Me too. I have read a lot of your threads and I do feel for you, but I really think that a different approach on your behalf is needed. Your other children seem to be really suffering and it is time to put them first and if that means your eldest going into temporary/ respite care then so be it. I would fight tooth and nail for my kids, but sometimes you do have to appreciate that perhaps others might be able to help them more.

Has your eldest stayed for any length of time without you in recent years? You say she behaves with other adults, is this over a prolonged period? I also wonder what criteria CAHMS have used for refusing a referral, what have they said as to why?

carerof3

You need to write to the social services, as previously advised. A phone call isn't the same thing - they can forget they had that. Or just write "mrs x phoned" or something, which says nothing. I send such letters recorded delivery or hand deliver and get a reciept. Send copies to your county councillor - better than MP as if he's like mine was he will say it's a council issue.

The best way to fight that I have found, and I have had many fights for school placements, residential placements, grants etc. is POLITE but PERSISTANT. Years ago (1980) when I was applying for a discretionary student grant, I phoned once a week to enquire. Eventually I heard someone in the background say "it's that xx xx again" (with my name) and I knew I was wearing them down - I got my grant! It was very rare to get a discretionary grant, the college I went to couldn't believe I had got one.

I would also say that knowing your rights is good, if there is a code of practice for the situation e.g. the statement process, then note down the relevant parts and quote them. The Disability Facilities Grant officer here hated me phoning, as I quoted the law to him and left him with no excuses. This may not be possible for your situation at the moment, but it may help someone else.

Have you tried contacting your local carers centre. See here to find it http://www.carers.org/ they would know if there were any local respite organisations. I used a voluntary service when my kids were young. There could also be a sibling service for your other children.

Oh, & I agree, stop Eastenders & Coronation street. You are a very caring mother, but you do need to get some support from somewhere, or you will be in hospital with a breakdown, then all your kids will suffer further. Unfortunately, it's those who shout most who get! Don't accept a 'no'. What happens is you ask, they say "no", you go away - problem solved for them! What should happen is you ask, they say "no", you ask again - go higher manager etc. - write to councillor etc. Keep on.

Darlyd

Teabag Am going through exact same as you are, it's so frustrating, we know something is wrong, and in my experience I get blamed for it, we only have one professional who is on side with us and is helping us fight for a diagnoses.

I have pm'd you. Please get in touch..

Thinking of you xx

teabag29

Have pm'd you chick but its not showing as sent so not sure if u got it?

teabag29

Ok trying not to get my hopes up but there have been some developments today. Firstly I went to see the M.P as I mentioned (well her case worker anyway). She was very supportive and shocked by how i've been let down so much. She was particularly shocked with social services and when I mentioned the socials workers name she smiled and knew exactly who I was talking about....I got the feeling she has had dealings with her before. She couldnt believe they told me I couldnt have a carers asessment and didnt even seem to know what one was.

Anyway she said they will write a strong letter to head of childrens services highlighting section 17, child in need and be mentioning the MP in the letter. Also she will write to the head of educators i think it was called? about schools lack of support and also to someone regarding the health side of things (i.e. camhs) as from what she's heard dd has clear needs that cant be written off.

Then I had an appt with the case worker for statementing as they turned my application down at the first hurdle and I explained how school have let her down continuosly and I have been patient but things are getting worse. I told her all about how its affecting the whole family and how dd talks of suicide. I was truthful and told them about her manipulative side etc but also how she is clearly struggling at school and the effect its having on her homelife.

The lady was very nice and said she's glad I called her out for the meeting and based on what ive told her she will be taking it back to management reference group to re-consider. I know this is only the 1st hurdle to getting a statement and they still have plenty of opportunity to turn it down but atleast they are re-considering this stage and thats a step in the right direction!

Well they say it comes in 3's and the 3rd piece of good news is that the paediatrician has just rang and she has managed to get camhs to agree to re-asess dd.

All of this has ofcourse made me feel relieved, some light at the end of the tunnel hopefully. I better ring back the MP and explain she doesnt need to send a strong letter to camhs now lol

As always thanks for all the support ladies )