Absolutely mortified....how could she do this and why?*update*

carefullycautious

daska wrote: »

But you can live with yourself not giving your other 3 kids what they need?

I may be wrong here and I know it's going to sound hurtful though it's not intended that way, but it sounds, tbh, as if CAMHS have come to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that her main problem is that she's spoilt silly with attention. Have you had any advice from a behavioural therapist? It may be that what she really needs from you is less, rather than more.

Interesting theory. Also she does, by what mum has said, have insight as she apologises and trys to explain why she misbehaves. It needs someone who can work on the positives. You (Mum) are too involved emotionally and run ragged by the looks of things. She seems one mixed up little girl with raging hormones thrown into the mix also.
Big hugs to you. She could do with something like the 'House of tiny tearaways' Im sure the child psychologists would be able to see what the problems are. Yes I know she is too old. Not sure what you can do to be honest

j.e.j.

I do sympathise, OP, but what RAS is saying has made me think of someone in my family, and how it kind of echoes the situation you are in.

I have a cousin who has a number of complex mental health problems. She put her own mother thru hell (and still does), but something we all notice looking in from the outside as it were, is that she has her mother round her little finger, and always has. She is 'backward' (or E.S.N. as they used to call it), and struggles academically and was picked on in a mainstream school something rotten. BUT she was/is also manipulative, abusive, headstrong and not averse to telling monstrous lies, (while looking very innocent to anyone who doesn't know her!!) and her mother became frightened of upsetting her, and just gave in to her all the time. My cousin knows this (she is not silly in that regard) and of course her behaviour got worse and worse. Her mother is now in her 60s, and has had no life of her own.

I am not saying this to criticize you, - it just sounds like you may in some ways be inadvertently enabling your daughter's behaviour. Please try to nip this in the bud now, for your sake and for the sake of your other kids.

morganedge

have you told her that because of the lies she's told, she may have to be taken away to live somewhere else?

thegirlintheattic

Whilst you say that you couldn't bear her being in care, could you not seek some sort of respite arrangement to give you and your other kids time to regroup and spend some quality time together?

Welshwoofs

Sorry to be blunt here, but if all these professionals have come back to you saying there's nothing wrong with her.....perhaps it is a case of there being nothing wrong with her and she's just enjoying being a little b-iatch, giving everyone the run around and sucking up all your time and attention?

It sounds as though you're a really caring Mother who wants her to be happy, but I'm also wondering if perhaps she's revelling in being the special one - getting all the horse riding lessons, the designer bags and clothes etc.

The fact is that your other children deserve a happy household too and that's not going to happen with your daughter behaving the way she is. Personally I'd be tempted to make it plain to her that if she doesn't buck up, then she'll have to go into care where professionals will help her because you have her siblings to think of too....not just her.

tom9980

teabag29 wrote: »

I know what you are saying and im tring my best to give as much time as i can to the others, i know its not enough. But if it is attachemnt disorder as i suspect it may well be then separating her from me again will have serious effects on her mental health, it will ruin any progress ive tried to make and any trust she has built up in me. Not to mention it will destroy me and the other children who will lose their sister. What can socail services do that I havent tried, how will that help her?

can you not see that by not separating her from you that you will damage her ability to live the rest of her life in as normal a way as possible?

can you also not see that by continuing on as things stand you will have no life of your own?

can you not see that the situation is damaging the lives of the other children?

Once SS can see all the things you have stated in previous posts and threads they will have no choice but to address them and give her the support that will ultimately give her chance of a normal life with you and her siblings. I think if things continue and you dont get any help things can only get worse for everyone.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

I know you are saying this is all attachment disorder, because you didn't have her at home for that time, but you've had her back for much, much longer. And not every mental health professional will agree attachment disorder even exists. Even if it does exist, it's still not carte blanche for behaving atrociously.



If she makes allegations about teachers acting inappropriately again, I'd report them to the school. That'll concentrate the school's mind a bit, as it could mean the end of two teachers' careers if it had been true - and very bad press for the school.


She knew exactly what the nappy allegations would do to your son. He now has to spend the rest of his school life being called nappy boy. He'll be remembered in future years as the one who wore nappies. In 60 years time, people will think 'I wonder whether that kid who wore nappies ever grew out of it?' when their great grandchildren have problems with toilet training. She knew that, or she wouldn't have made up that particular tale. She went out deliberately to hurt her brother in the meanest, most malicious way she could. I would be pretty surprised if it wasn't a punishment for him getting a tiny bit of attention from you - or because she knew that torturing him would hurt you.

She rejects you because she knows it hurts you. Hence the 'I'm not talking to her' rubbish. She accuses you of abuse because she knows it hurts you. And it's lets you know what could happen if you dare to be interested in another relative again.


Then, when she is caught out, she sobs and cries and is nice and loving and sweet again, so nothing is done to show her actions are unacceptable. Her brother sees she gets away with everything - because you won't ever do something to make her feel bad.


And what does she get out of it? A designer handbag, riding lessons, swimming, 90% of your attention - she must really resent the five minutes or so spent on the 3 other children unfortunate enough to have to live under her command. Probably telling them to do as their sister wants. She rules the family just as effectively as the man with the fists did all those years ago.



Unfortunately, until it effects someone else, social services will not really be much help without being forced to help. If she gets pregnant (you've previously said about sexualised behaviour)so there is a baby at risk, then they might be more proactive. As it is, your daughter knows that whatever she does, you're so terrified of her going away, all she has to do is make up some nonsense that she knows isn't true and you'll fall back into line again. So the only consequence of the most awful behaviour is that she is yet again rewarded for it.



I am truly sorry for what she is putting you through. But all the time you accept it, make allowances for it, talk about how lovely she can be if she feels like it, you sound like a battered wife making excuses for her husband. And you know what one of them will do to you in the end.

teabag29

let em explain, when i say she gets 90% of my attention its not just through her behaviour, infact i dont give her the attention in her bad behaviour i largely try to ignore that hwere possible and praise the good. My attention with her is learning based, school arent giving her the help she should be getting and its causing her so much stress so i am trying to do as much at home educationally with her as i can. My other 3 children are all in the top groups so dont need the same level of help as she does and i make sure i do things with them each week to.

Camhs took my concerns seriously until the ep report came through highlighting her low levels and they basically said she has learning difficulties and discharged her. I'm now in a position where school are saying its not educational its emotional and the health professionals say its not emotional its educational....each passing her back and forth. In my opinion its BOTH educational and emotional.

Also to the poster who said about not disciplining her, maybe I have came across in my writing as this is what i do but i can assure you i do not let her get away with things, i punish her the same as the other children and always have (star charts, behaviour contracts, reward for good behaviour, loss of privelages, naughty step or time out this sort of thing), the thing is the punishments dont work with dd, she has no sense of responsibility and consequence and doesnt seem to care. Again this is why I suspect attachment disorder because all the research ive done on it says that children with this cannot be parented like normal children it wont work.

It is the psychologist that tells me i need to give her 100% atention and lots of praise which i am doing, i have explained that i feel my other children are being left out some what though as there are only so many hours in the day but this just seems to get shrugged off. I said the same thing to the s.worker yesterday and she just nodded

daska

Then how about a single letter addressed to ALL the professionals (education and health) that have been involved in her case asking them to have a joint meeting and make up their minds as to what the problem is? So that there can be a clear plan put in place to address the problems with your daughter AND the resultant problems that she causes for your other children. Copy to your GP and SS and School Governors and to the bosses that run the other services.

what happened with the CAF?

teabag29

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I know you are saying this is all attachment disorder, because you didn't have her at home for that time, but you've had her back for much, much longer. And not every mental health professional will agree attachment disorder even exists. Even if it does exist, it's still not carte blanche for behaving atrociously.



If she makes allegations about teachers acting inappropriately again, I'd report them to the school. That'll concentrate the school's mind a bit, as it could mean the end of two teachers' careers if it had been true - and very bad press for the school.


She knew exactly what the nappy allegations would do to your son. He now has to spend the rest of his school life being called nappy boy. He'll be remembered in future years as the one who wore nappies. In 60 years time, people will think 'I wonder whether that kid who wore nappies ever grew out of it?' when their great grandchildren have problems with toilet training. She knew that, or she wouldn't have made up that particular tale. She went out deliberately to hurt her brother in the meanest, most malicious way she could. I would be pretty surprised if it wasn't a punishment for him getting a tiny bit of attention from you - or because she knew that torturing him would hurt you.

She rejects you because she knows it hurts you. Hence the 'I'm not talking to her' rubbish. She accuses you of abuse because she knows it hurts you. And it's lets you know what could happen if you dare to be interested in another relative again.


Then, when she is caught out, she sobs and cries and is nice and loving and sweet again, so nothing is done to show her actions are unacceptable. Her brother sees she gets away with everything - because you won't ever do something to make her feel bad.


And what does she get out of it? A designer handbag, riding lessons, swimming, 90% of your attention - she must really resent the five minutes or so spent on the 3 other children unfortunate enough to have to live under her command. Probably telling them to do as their sister wants. She rules the family just as effectively as the man with the fists did all those years ago.



Unfortunately, until it effects someone else, social services will not really be much help without being forced to help. If she gets pregnant (you've previously said about sexualised behaviour)so there is a baby at risk, then they might be more proactive. As it is, your daughter knows that whatever she does, you're so terrified of her going away, all she has to do is make up some nonsense that she knows isn't true and you'll fall back into line again. So the only consequence of the most awful behaviour is that she is yet again rewarded for it.



I am truly sorry for what she is putting you through. But all the time you accept it, make allowances for it, talk about how lovely she can be if she feels like it, you sound like a battered wife making excuses for her husband. And you know what one of them will do to you in the end.

you are talking alot of sense but what do you mean i need to stop it now.....how? if i knew how i'd do it, ive tried everything. Thing is its not just behaviour which is what most of the posters are commenting on,
She has very poor sleep and cant settle down, no concentration, food obsession, sensory issues, takes things literally and doesnt understand there may be more than 1 meaning to something, toileting problems, educational problems, never thirsty but on the contrary doesnt recognise being full up, cannot get on with other kids but very pleasant to adults and young children, difficulty knowing when to end a conversation or understand social queues, doesnt understand gestures or emotions, has trouble understanding other peoples feelings and her own for that matter,constantly talks to herself and likes to play alone, nothing occupies her for more than 5 minutes, fidgets all the time and cannot sit still,gives eye contact when lying, limited empathy,flaps her hands when shes excited, fast and loud speech, needs routine and if thats upset her behaviour will erupt (which is 1 reason i think her behaviour is worse of late because of all the professionals involved and shes not good with new people), poor motor skills, poor memory and very limited sense of danger.

Also to the poster who said if all these professionals are saying nothings wrong perhaps there isnt...... they aren't saying nothings wrong, they are passing her to and fro each saying she belongs with another agency and talking about how stretched their resources are and funding etc.