Primary school putting kids "in the naughty corner" if they need the toilet

suki1001

Sparklyfairy wrote: »

Yes, I did put her on the spot. But I wasn't asking in an accusing kind of way. After speaking to several parents (mainly with older children at the school) this issue has been raised over & over with her so she should be well versed. It seems to cool off, then these harsh measures start again. It's good to hear that the head you dealt with realised her mistake & apologised to you. I'm not sure I'll get an apology, but if I do, I will surely post on here about it!

Well that's the thing, I didn't say anything accusing, I'm not a parent type to go storming down to the office when my "little darling complains" and I always try to see both sides. However, my head did the same thing at the time, saying things like "that's your child's perspective". I genuinely think a lot of heads get people storming in guns blazing and as part of their job, many are used to being defensive. It's probably something automatic.

I genuinely wonder, if as she is a good head like you thought previously, whether she might listen to your thoughts, because at the end of the day, she can either pass the problem off as "your problem" or your daughters (which clearly isn't the case), or take more concern over the effect this teacher is having on your daughter's wellbeing.

It seems that even Nicki wouldn't be fully happy with the method this teacher is implemeting (although she would go along with it cos school rules is school rules).

Your story rings very true to me from a child's perspective, not because we were humiliated as much as your daughter, but because this teacher made me feel so stupid through the toilet incident, for some reason, I became incredibly nervous of asking people to go to the toilet at their houses, which in turn made me fearful of going to the toilet at night, in case I was told off for waking the house up, which in turn made me a bed-wetter when I was 10 until about 12.

Your daughter's wellbeing is so important, as you are well aware. I really hope this is sorted for you.

Sparklyfairy

Suki, thank you. The head is hard to read - not always consistant in her behaviour. When she's done speaking you (regardless if you are done!) she'll end the conversation & walk out of the room. There doesn't have to be an issue for this to happen with her, either.

I have always had a very good relationship with her, told her how happy we are/were with the school, happy with her plans, etc. But I have always been warned about this "other" side to her personality by other parents. I do wonder if she suffers from depression, bipolar or something similar. I have been told that the weak parents get walked all over by her & the ones that stick up for themselves will see her back down...as simplistic as this sounds, what I've seen by what she has done in the past, I have to say it's true.

I feel that, obviously, to her the naughty step course of action isn't something that will harm/upset the children & I wanted to point out to her that it IS harming them - humilating my dd twice in 1 day & reducing her to tears over her draconian methods is WRONG!

I also hope it's sorted soon. x

thegirlintheattic

thatgirlsam wrote: »

Honestly, my view is not that teachers take pride in humiliating children - I do think that locking toilets could result in the humiliation of children, and that is not right imo

If my child got let out and they had an accident, then thats an accident, all this 'blame' culture is not doing us any favours!

If they got bullied while they were let out to use the loo, I don't see that as a good reason to have the toilets locked - locking the toilets is not a good 'anti-bullying' policy is it?

Can I emphasis not ALL the toilets are locked. One set at each end of school are open and as we are a small school these are only a minute away from the furthest classrooms. There is no humiliation there.

I'm glad that you don't blame the school, but many people do.

I see that we are never going to agree on what is the practical solution - I can only give my point of view and my experience that no child I teach has ever been humiliated by the school policy as far as I am aware.

suki1001

Sparklyfairy wrote: »

Suki, thank you. The head is hard to read - not always consistant in her behaviour. When she's done speaking you (regardless if you are done!) she'll end the conversation & walk out of the room. There doesn't have to be an issue for this to happen with her, either.

I have always had a very good relationship with her, told her how happy we are/were with the school, happy with her plans, etc. But I have always been warned about this "other" side to her personality by other parents. I do wonder if she suffers from depression, bipolar or something similar. I have been told that the weak parents get walked all over by her & the ones that stick up for themselves will see her back down...as simplistic as this sounds, what I've seen by what she has done in the past, I have to say it's true.

I feel that, obviously, to her the naughty step course of action isn't something that will harm/upset the children & I wanted to point out to her that it IS harming them - humilating my dd twice in 1 day & reducing her to tears over her draconian methods is WRONG!

I also hope it's sorted soon. x

That's not good is it? I know I would be feeling the same way as you. It's awful when you feel so powerless. What systems do they have in place when a child is struggling emotionally? When my daughter was having a tough time, we had a parent/child advisor who was very good. Also one of the teachers is I think what they call an inclusions manager, something to do with children who are experiencing difficulty.

When my daughter started school, she didn't want to go, would be clinging onto the railings, but as a parent you accept, that it's just one of those things that happens. However, when a teacher is affecting your child's behaviour in a negative way and is dealing with an issue that could be dealt with in a more positive way, it must be so frustrating for you. At least you have this board to sound off!

The head sounds so similar to ours, it's uncanny. She even admitted she could fly off the handle. She comes across as incredibly calm, but I soon learnt many parents who'd felt her wrath! I am one of those parents who melts and just wants to hide under the table!

Have you thought about writing to her? You could always sound it out on here for feedback.

spidersandsprinkles

This topic has recently resurfaced in my mind. I finished school 7 years ago and even in high school I was worried about asking to use to toilet even when I was seriously desperate.
I cannot believe children (especially at your child's age) are being treat this way. There is no way a child can be told not to use the toilet or reprimanded for doing so. In school I always felt teachers thought we would learn to 'control' our bladder. Now at 23 years old, I still need to go when I need to go!
This is a terrible practice in schools that needs to be spoken about more. We all grew up thinking that this was alright. It's not.
Please talk to the school. This is not healthy for children. We respect toilet needs from adult to adult but when it comes to schools allowing children to go to the toilet apparently teachers have a right to say no?

Mrs_Arcanum

Nicki wrote: »

If a child breaks a rule, whether it is not using the toilet when they are supposed to because they are playing and would rather miss 5 minutes of Mathis than 5 minutes of playtime, or not bringing their homework in because they couldn't be othered to do it, then the normal sanction for the school or class should apply surely?

You chose the school, and the sanction in that school for misbehaviour is apparently sitting in a corner. That's not one I like myself, and not one they used in my kid's school. But if that's what they use for rule breaking in your school, and you've accepted it up to now for other infractions, I don't really understand why it's automatically wrong for this infraction if ok for others.

In my kids school, the sanction for minor rule infringements like this was usually to think about the behaviour and the effect it had on the class, and to discuss it with the teacher 1:1. I quite like that one, and its what we tend to do at home. Sometimes at school it might also be having your name written on the board with the names of other kids who also disobeyed the same rule that day. But all schools, and teachers have different sanctions, usually set out in the conduct code, which parents can ask to see at any point.

The punishment in this situation is wrong. No punishment or singling out should ever be done regarding needing the loo. Sparklyfairy has only highlighted this one issue and I suspect there will be NO mention of this particular punishment anywhere in the school prospectus. So how is someone to choose a school based on this lack of information.

As for the Head Teacher, many seem to be like this. They appear to cave in to the parents who are assertive whilst otherwise carrying on regardless.

fluffnutter

Gingham_R wrote: »

They also have to remember to go before they're ready - not an easy thing at that age.

Which is also not necessarily a great thing to do, physiologically speaking. We should wait until we have a full bladder and feel the urge to go before we try to wee - that way we 'train' our bladder to comfortably reach its capacity.

Going before you're ready and just squeezing out a few drops can lead to an irritable bladder whereby you constantly feel like you need to go a little bit.

Basically children have small bladders; once they're full, they're full and a child will need to go. Coupled with the fact that the central nervous system is still maturing means that accidents are far more likely in the young.

But... I still firmly believe that you should go when you need to go, and not before. If that's in the middle of class, so be it. They're only little; it's not like they'll be missing something crucial about calculus.

Gingham_R

tw1nklestar wrote: »

I cover lessons for reception, yr1 and yr2 and with reception class we are on the carpet learning for 15mins max at this point in the year and i encourage the children to use the loo when coming in first thing in the morning, at break time etc - when you are on the carpet learning if the children ask to go to the loo I ask them to try to get through the carpet time but tell them if they are desparate not to ask again but just go - i can be very disruptive with children leaving the carpet in 'learning time' - further up the school I say of course you can go but every minute you are out of class working time then you can spend your break time in equivalent minutes catching up - this tends to stop the time wasters wanting to go and it encourages others to go at the appropriate times.

:T:T:T Yup. No humiliation, no bullying, no children wetting themselves rather than risk the teacher's wrath. Sensible, straightforward, workable method.

Sparklyfairy

Ok, this am I ask my dd who was made to clean up the wee & she told me she had to! I'm so cross it's unreal!

I have emailed the school asking for their complaints policy to be sent to me & I have also called the school nurse (off til Tues) hoping to ask her to come in & re-educate the staff on the importance of using the toilet & how to prevent urinary tract infections...

shelley_crow

OP, I can sympathise to some extent. My son's head teacher implemented a policy last year which resulted in all children from years 1 - 6 being refused access to the toilet in lesson time, with no exceptions. As you can imagine this resulted in lots of accidents in kids from 5 - 11 years of age. This policy was in force for only a couple of weeks before it was suddenly revoked. She wouldn't have changed it of her own volition so I think someone must have complained about her.

The headteacher is also very unapproachable and rather outdated in her thinking, they aren't related are they?!