Primary school putting kids "in the naughty corner" if they need the toilet

Sambucus_Nigra

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry was away for a bit. Sparkly I haven't avoided your question, and no I don't work with kids but have 3 of my own.

If a child asked for the toilet within 10 minutes of a break where the rule was as in your school, I would think it acceptable for the teacher to ask the child had they used the toilet at break time and if not why not. If the child said they forgot/were playing then I would see that as a deliberate disregard of the school rule, and so I would apply whatever sanction that attracts in the classroom, after I had let them use the toilet. If they said they hadn't because they hadn't needed it at that point, I would ask if they could wait for 15 minutes or so until the first activity was over to avoid disrupting the class and them missing vital instructions, then let them go. If they said they couldnt wait, they could go at once. If they said they had gone but needed to go again, I would let them go with no further queries. If they asked more than 20 minutes after a break, they go without question. This is what happened when I was a child at primary school and seemed to work fine and dandy, with no one obviously having accidents or getting distressed, and it was to be honest the exception rather than the rule for children to go during lesson time.

I do think 6/7 is a suitable age to expect a child to start planning to use the loo at break (ie last year of Ks1, year 2). My kids, one of whom has learning difficulties and didn't toilet train until she was 5/6, had got into that habit at that age, and very rarely asked to leave the class outside of these times. For a child with a genuine medical problem, then obviously free access should be allowed but I don't think you are suggesting this applies to either of yours?

Jeez.

You've had 3 kids; just wait until your first Tena moment.

You'll be eating those words.

Sparklyfairy

Nicki wrote: »

If the child said they forgot/were playing then I would see that as a deliberate disregard of the school rule, and so I would apply whatever sanction that attracts in the classroom, after I had let them use the toilet.

My question to you again is: What punishment do you think is ok for a 6yo and why do you think they should be punished......?

Blue_Elephant

Completely random aside, but part of the reason for locking the loos except where the entrances can be seen by staff, in secondary schools, is to combat smoking in the toilets/self harm. Sad, but true.

Its also the reason we had prefects hanging around at loo entrances during break/lunch times. Unknown to the teachers, half the prefects were smoking...

suki1001

But Nicki, this isn't what the teacher was doing. I note you don't state you would put them in a naughty corner. Do you agree with the methods this particular teacher implemented?

Also your methods seem to be a bit long winded as meritatin stated. As other teachers on here have stated, they usually know the one's who try it on, I don't think it should warrant this, if the groundrules are set down beforehand.

suki1001

Sparklyfairy wrote: »

I personally feel that the head lied to me - of course the teachers can't just make up their own rules! She's waaay too controlling to ever let that happen - she is the one who implemented it, end of. The teachers/assistants were mearly acting on her instruction..

I suspect maybe you put her on the spot. I once confronted our head and it was awful. I realised afterwards she had turned everything around to me and the issue with my daughter got lost. I was genuinely shocked at her reaction and very upset. A couple of weeks later she apologised to me and said she'd handled it completely wrongly and that I'd put her on the spot. I really admired her for doing this and have an awful lot of respect for her.

Is it possible a similar thing happened?

Hanging_by_a_thread

meritaten wrote: »

and by the time you had finished cross questioning the kid whether they needed to go - they could have gone and come back! surely its easier just to let them go?

Or worse still after all that questioning, they could have gone on the carpet, be in floods of tears and you'll have a lesson disturbed for far longer than if you had just used common sense and let them go to the loo. Ewwwww doesn't bare thinking about.

Note to self - never work with kids

thatgirlsam

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

The regulations mention nothing about not refusing or restricting usuage. The regulations can be viewed here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2/contents/made
and only stipulates the number of toilets needed.

Claire: In my school bunking off is actually very rare indeed, however we have a duty of care towards our students, and so make sure that there is nowhere within school that a child, possibly one who is angry or upset, could be alone, unsupervised, for an extended period of time. Similarly if a student is sent to stand outside the class, the door is left open so they are within sight, if this is not possible we are not allowed to remove them from class until someone on call is able to come and collect them.

Sparkley: As far as I'm aware, most 'normal' teachers would only be allowed to patrol during their proper 'frees'. Most non-contact time is actually PPA and we can't be asked to patrol during that time. Depending on where you work you may get one free a week or none, and there are times when there are many teachers not teaching and times when everyone is teaching or on PPA. Therefore a rota system would be unworkable in the majority of schools. It's similar to the fact we can't be asked to do duties at lunch times unless we are paid extra/given lunch.

Yes, a duty of care to your students

Preventing a student from using the loo would breach this, surely?

Most girls start their periods during the first few years of secondary school - preventing them from using the loo during class is horrendous. Its bad enough for them the embarressment and adjustment to puberty and what is happening to their bodies, let them use the flipping toilet if they need to!

Geez, and we wonder why some teenagers have such bad attitudes??

Nicki

Sparklyfairy wrote: »

My question to you again is: What punishment do you think is ok for a 6yo and why do you think they should be punished......?

If a child breaks a rule, whether it is not using the toilet when they are supposed to because they are playing and would rather miss 5 minutes of Mathis than 5 minutes of playtime, or not bringing their homework in because they couldn't be othered to do it, then the normal sanction for the school or class should apply surely?

You chose the school, and the sanction in that school for misbehaviour is apparently sitting in a corner. That's not one I like myself, and not one they used in my kid's school. But if that's what they use for rule breaking in your school, and you've accepted it up to now for other infractions, I don't really understand why it's automatically wrong for this infraction if ok for others.

In my kids school, the sanction for minor rule infringements like this was usually to think about the behaviour and the effect it had on the class, and to discuss it with the teacher 1:1. I quite like that one, and its what we tend to do at home. Sometimes at school it might also be having your name written on the board with the names of other kids who also disobeyed the same rule that day. But all schools, and teachers have different sanctions, usually set out in the conduct code, which parents can ask to see at any point.

Nicki

Hanging_by_a_thread wrote: »

Or worse still after all that questioning, they could have gone on the carpet, be in floods of tears and you'll have a lesson disturbed for far longer than if you had just used common sense and let them go to the loo. Ewwwww doesn't bare thinking about.

Note to self - never work with kids

It's not a barrage of questions, all asked in every situation. I set out all the scenarios possible, and the approaches to each. The most any scenario attracted was 2 questions to a child answerable by a one word or short sentence! I clearly have a bladder of steel, schooled by my barbaric school experience, but that must have stood me in good stead for my tena moments after all those children

I am clearly in a very small minority here, so maybe I am a cruel and unusual parent, but my first reaction in OP's situation would have been to talk to my child about why they weren't going to the loo at break time and try to find strategies to make sure they did.

claire16c

thegirlintheattic wrote: »

Claire: In my school bunking off is actually very rare indeed, however we have a duty of care towards our students, and so make sure that there is nowhere within school that a child, possibly one who is angry or upset, could be alone, unsupervised, for an extended period of time. Similarly if a student is sent to stand outside the class, the door is left open so they are within sight, if this is not possible we are not allowed to remove them from class until someone on call is able to come and collect them.

But surely a teacher would know if a child had gone missing or taking ages in the loo because they would have been marked absent on a register at the start of the lesson or not come back? It seems a bit odd they could just sort of disappear off the radar so to speak?

Also isnt it a massive pain for someone to go round and lock and unlock loos at every single break? Seems like by the time theyd finished unlocking them, theyd be back to the first one to lock it back up again?:rotfl: