Sack Atos Healthcare Immediately Please take a look.

rotoguys

rogerblack wrote: »

In addition, what you mention is benefit fraud.
You can't do permitted work of over 16 hours.
Work done at and over 16 hours is not permitted work, and is not exempt.
You can't get WTCs with under 16 hours.

Absolutely, but you CAN work for more than 16 hours a week, provided that the net income you earn is below £1040 a year and for it still to be Permitted Work.

You may ask how. Those that are not on a means tested benefit ie contribution based ESA, will normally have a wife/husband/partner helping out in the business. They are paid a wage of say the max allowed before tax has to be deducted - £7475, they lease a new car, part of leasing payments are set against profit, part of the running costs are set against profit, then they will charge for use of home as office, part use of gas, electricty etc.

So on the basis that they work more than 16 hours (qualifying under the disability conditions for WTC, and say make a pre net profit of £8500 - after wife/husband/partner wages, leaves a net of £1025 for the ESA claimant - below the limit.

In exchange they will get max WTC!

The DWP regs say that you can't claim WTC & ESA, but WTC is a consequence of Permitted Work!! And HMRC say you can as it is based purely on hours worked!

One massive fraud in my opinionBut a legal one it seems!!

cit_k

BigAunty wrote: »

Under their watch and before the reforms, Incapacity claimants were set to rise to 3 million. In my city, up to a few years ago, one in five working age claimants received IB, now down to one in seven.

Seeing as no one has been able to put in a IB claim since ESA was introduced, its not suprising IB figures are dropping is it?
IB was relatively stable for years in terms of onflow and off-flow, and for a while the numbers were dropping rather than rising.

BigAunty wrote: »

It became a handy way of parking the unemployed out of the JSA figures. GPs ended up complicit in this.

Convienently forgetting they also have to convince both ATOS and the DWP that they are unfit for work, and there were still huge numbers of appeals (and claimaints winning at appeal) on IB.

BigAunty wrote: »

Not GPs who do not have any clue to employment practices and whose trusting role means that they are obliged to cooperate with a patients request, not challenge it.

Neither do atos have any clue on employment practices, they are not occupational thealth specialists, they undergo a very short disability training course thats it.

GP's are not obliged to comply with a patients request, nor obliged to not challenge it - that would be in breach of medical ethics to behave in such a way.

cit_k

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But you do at least see a specialist from time to time, even if you don't find them helpful and possibly have a CPN as well.

For many people with chronic, life threatening illnesses, the GP is the only medical contact they have, so if they don't see him/her regularly they are totally isolated from any help, new medical developments or support.

Not seen a specialist, had a cpn before, tried to get one again, was almost through the process (its been made quite hard now, and stupidly puts to much onus on the ill person, things like telephone calls etc) - but thanks to pressure from ATOS/DWP at the time I was to unwell to continue with the process, so lost out.

See the GP when they call me in, depends on the GP, some are better than others, but they keep changing GP's...

In for regular blood checks etc, but thats the main thing - the main problem I hardly see them about, as its pretty pointless, they cant do anything other than chuck pills at me.

cit_k

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Just because people are finding it difficult to get jobs is no reason fro them to be claiming disability benefits. That's one of the problems that's got us into this mess in the first place!

Difficulty in finding a job has never been a consideration in the assessment or decision making process.

cit_k

Hank_Marvin wrote: »

Don't ATOS use qualified doctors and have specialists on hand. Never heard of them but google says they are Healthcare pro's.

You might get a GP, or you might get a nurse, or you might get a midwife, or you might get a therapist.

Basically any form of medical person, who has been on the ATOS course, and practiced in their feild for 2 years, and is registered with their regulatory body can do it.

Adereterial

Mupette wrote: »

This is why i also wrote that training for staff is needed...



If its a decision marker who says yay or nay, how do we know they are qualified as a medical expert to have knowledge, both DWP and ATOS need looking at.

The Decision Maker is trained to use the ATOS report plus ANY other evidence someone chooses to submit to make a decision whether someone can or cannot reasonably be considered to be able to perform certain basic functions of everyday life. They do not need to be medically trained. They are not there to diagnose, nor are ATOS. They're there to look at basic function.

They take their jobs very seriously and spend considerable time over every decision. They don't make decisions lightly.

cit_k

Adereterial wrote: »

The Decision Maker is trained to use the ATOS report plus ANY other evidence someone chooses to submit to make a decision whether someone can or cannot reasonably be considered to be able to perform certain basic functions of everyday life. They do not need to be medically trained. They are not there to diagnose, nor are ATOS. They're there to look at basic function.

They take their jobs very seriously and spend considerable time over every decision. They don't make decisions lightly.

No, although things are supposed to be slowly improving, harrington found DM's just rubber stamped atos reports 98% of the time.

Decision makers do not spend a considerable time over every decision either - they are expected on average to complete 12 decisions a DAY.

gypsyjanet

I pointed out to my GP that the ESA system was doing a lot of damage to the NHS. She asked me to clarify why I said this. I told her that under the old IC system she would sign me off sick indefinately, I would claim the relevant benefit entittlements and only have to see her when my condition required it( my problems are not going to get better) However the new ESA system requires me to submit sick notes and I have now been doing this every few months for three years now. Each time I go to my GP for a sick note the cost is being covered by the NHS and not the DWP. Not suprising then that she wrote me out a six month sick note !!!!

simplydevine05

I have read everything on this thread so far with great interest. I am 26 and was diagnosed with a condition leaving me unable to walk more than a few steps without severe pain. I have been advised that there is no cure but that it will go and eventually (after much pushing of the NHS on my part) I was placed on yet another waiting list for pain management. I only have to wait 68 days, although my GP said he would write the hospital a letter to see if it can be dealt with quicker. I see my GP at least once a month for a review although his hands are tied with what he can do. I cannot fault him at all.
I am on sick leave from work and am lucky to receive more than SSP until 3rd March and my employer are keen to provide me with any support I need, including help with returning when I can.
Due to the increase in costs from attending all these appointments all over the place, having help to cook, clean and look after my son, I have claimed dla. It is 8 weeks today since I claimed have yet to receive a decision. My stress levels went through the roof when I was given 3 days notice for an ATOS doctor coming to see me to do a medical, especially as I have heard so many bad things about them. The doctor attended last Tuesday and he removed all of my misconceptions. He was straight to the point, was very aware of my condition when asking to test my strength in my legs and even offered a few tips as to how to overcome some of the problems I face, but in a nice way, like having chewing gum to relieve the dry mouth my painkillers cause.
Obviously I may end up with a decision to say I am not entitled and that may be the fault of the ATOS doctor or the person who manages the decision.
I never thought I would end up unable to walk completely out of the blue and to need care on a daily basis, but I have nothing to hide and have been nothing but honest.
I thought it may be helpful for people to know that not all ATOS healthcare professionals are bad, but that we tend to tell our stories when they are bad ones.

Muttleythefrog

simplydevine05 wrote: »

I have read everything on this thread so far with great interest. I am 26 and was diagnosed with a condition leaving me unable to walk more than a few steps without severe pain. I have been advised that there is no cure but that it will go and eventually (after much pushing of the NHS on my part) I was placed on yet another waiting list for pain management. I only have to wait 68 days, although my GP said he would write the hospital a letter to see if it can be dealt with quicker. I see my GP at least once a month for a review although his hands are tied with what he can do. I cannot fault him at all.
I am on sick leave from work and am lucky to receive more than SSP until 3rd March and my employer are keen to provide me with any support I need, including help with returning when I can.
Due to the increase in costs from attending all these appointments all over the place, having help to cook, clean and look after my son, I have claimed dla. It is 8 weeks today since I claimed have yet to receive a decision. My stress levels went through the roof when I was given 3 days notice for an ATOS doctor coming to see me to do a medical, especially as I have heard so many bad things about them. The doctor attended last Tuesday and he removed all of my misconceptions. He was straight to the point, was very aware of my condition when asking to test my strength in my legs and even offered a few tips as to how to overcome some of the problems I face, but in a nice way, like having chewing gum to relieve the dry mouth my painkillers cause.
Obviously I may end up with a decision to say I am not entitled and that may be the fault of the ATOS doctor or the person who manages the decision.
I never thought I would end up unable to walk completely out of the blue and to need care on a daily basis, but I have nothing to hide and have been nothing but honest.
I thought it may be helpful for people to know that not all ATOS healthcare professionals are bad, but that we tend to tell our stories when they are bad ones.

Sorry to hear of your plight. From my reading, home based medicals seem to generate quite positive responses (in contrast to medical centre)... and at least you seem to have had one. Perhaps one big advantage of the home based medical is that they should be properly prepared to meet you. Many people report that the doctor (HCP) didn't read the evidence (like ESA50) in advance of the medical and clearly had no idea who they were going to be assessing - sounds like in your case due procedure may well have been followed although I'm not sure their job is to provide medical advice.

What you could do in the interim is request from DWP (not ATOS) a copy of the resulting medical report... it could give a strong idea as to what the decision may end up being by the DWP (the report actually states the descriptors that the doctor felt applied)... a decision that may take weeks to be made.

As for DLA.. yeah can be a significant wait. Good luck!