Daytime running lights

Trebor16

You might want to ask cyclists and motorcyclists what they think about DRL's as they will diminish the effectiveness of a motorcycle headlight during the daytime and therefore make them less visible. It wouldn't surprise me if drivers also start behaving differently and looking for a light source instead of looking properly and start pulling out in front of vehicles not fitted with DRL's.

If the EU was really serious about road safety they would have been pushing for mandatory eye tests every two years and also driver re-testing. Instead they mince around with DRL's.

pitkin2020

Trebor16 wrote: »

You might want to ask cyclists and motorcyclists what they think about DRL's as they will diminish the effectiveness of a motorcycle headlight during the daytime and therefore make them less visible. It wouldn't surprise me if drivers also start behaving differently and looking for a light source instead of looking properly and start pulling out in front of vehicles not fitted with DRL's.

If the EU was really serious about road safety they would have been pushing for mandatory eye tests every two years and also driver re-testing. Instead they mince around with DRL's.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what you say but I didn't ask for a debate I asked about fitting and kits, not opinions.

My reason for thinking about fitting them are for visibility plain and simple. My partner a new driver i'll add will be ferrying my kids around aswell so if it gives the car more presence all the better.

Your opinion regarding motorcycles and cyclists is flawed. Most who want to be seen wear a high viz jacket in addition to lights (no different to a driver adding daytime lights instead of high viz jacket i'll add). Whilst motorcyclist may have lights on during the day its very rare for a cyclists to have lights on so they aren't exactly going to blend in with all the DRL's on now are they.

Drivers may adapt their driving habits but I have to say I think its very unlikely as we are talking about daytime driving, not in low light but daylight. Unless people start driving around squinting and just missing the flashing lights nothing will change really DRL's just add to be seen nothing will take away from the natural ability that daylight has they are just an addition.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

the DRL kits you intend to fit must be E marked.

ive notice that DRL's are supposed to be turned off at night time but most if not all people ignore this when driving during the night with them on,their brighter than the dipped beam and as such i reckon the police should be enforcing the rules regarding DRL's and night time driving rant over.

pitkin just make sure the kit you buy is of E mark standard. comes with the wiring kit and all switches and relays.

theres lamp unit kits to fing into the bumper, or theres strip kits wich needs to be put into the headlamp. with regard to fitting the latter, most headlamps are sealed and clamp bracketed. to open the front lense to fit requires some patience and full headlamp removal, then removing the clips and any metal, put the headlamp in the cooker for a few mins to soften the sealant glue, once appart you can fit the strip and drill a hole in the refective backing for the wires to pass through the unit, seal back up and seal the new hole refit the clamps the fit the lamps back to car and subsequent wiring.

fitted loads of "halo" or "angel eyes" after market kits some cars were easy like the MG/Rover round lamps some were a nightmare like on a BMW 3 series pre projection and angel eye production.

Trebor16

pitkin2020 wrote: »

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what you say but I didn't ask for a debate I asked about fitting and kits, not opinions.

The nature of this forum is, whether you like it or not,you will get topics diverting slightly.

pitkin wrote:

My reason for thinking about fitting them are for visibility plain and simple. My partner a new driver i'll add will be ferrying my kids around aswell so if it gives the car more presence all the better.

You have contradicted yourself. In post 13 you said:-

"Its not that i'm so much worried about being seen"

Now you say the opposite.

pitkin wrote:

Your opinion regarding motorcycles and cyclists is flawed. Most who want to be seen wear a high viz jacket in addition to lights (no different to a driver adding daytime lights instead of high viz jacket i'll add). Whilst motorcyclist may have lights on during the day its very rare for a cyclists to have lights on so they aren't exactly going to blend in with all the DRL's on now are they.

Not at all, it is an opinion shared with the British Motorcyclists Federation (BMF), the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) and the Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations {FEMA). The following cycling groups are also concerned about DRL's:-

CTC
European Cyclists Federation

A number of pedestrian groups are also concerned about them.

pitkin wrote:

Drivers may adapt their driving habits but I have to say I think its very unlikely as we are talking about daytime driving, not in low light but daylight. Unless people start driving around squinting and just missing the flashing lights nothing will change really DRL's just add to be seen nothing will take away from the natural ability that daylight has they are just an addition.

People have already adapted their driving habits because of changes in technology over the years so it is not unreasonable to think that they will change habits in respect of DRL's and how thoroughly they look when emerging from junctions on to main roads. If they start looking for a light source as confirmation of the presence of another vehicle they are goign to potentially miss cars that are not fitted with them or cyclists. They are also going to have problems picking out motorcyclists in amongst a sea of vehicles with DRL's illuminated.

Let's face it, emergency service motorcyclists get knocked off their bikes, which are marked, with reflective and high vis markings and the riders are wearing high vis jackets. What will the chances be of ordinary motorcyclists in amongst a greater quantity of othere vehicles which all have DRL's?

pitkin2020

atrixblue.-MFR-. wrote: »

the DRL kits you intend to fit must be E marked.

ive notice that DRL's are supposed to be turned off at night time but most if not all people ignore this when driving during the night with them on,their brighter than the dipped beam and as such i reckon the police should be enforcing the rules regarding DRL's and night time driving rant over.

pitkin just make sure the kit you buy is of E mark standard. comes with the wiring kit and all switches and relays.

theres lamp unit kits to fing into the bumper, or theres strip kits wich needs to be put into the headlamp. with regard to fitting the latter, most headlamps are sealed and clamp bracketed. to open the front lense to fit requires some patience and full headlamp removal, then removing the clips and any metal, put the headlamp in the cooker for a few mins to soften the sealant glue, once appart you can fit the strip and drill a hole in the refective backing for the wires to pass through the unit, seal back up and seal the new hole refit the clamps the fit the lamps back to car and subsequent wiring.

fitted loads of "halo" or "angel eyes" after market kits some cars were easy like the MG/Rover round lamps some were a nightmare like on a BMW 3 series pre projection and angel eye production.

Thanks for decent advice. I was looking more at the bumper fitted kits than the headlights as that just seems a lot of work lol. I have no intention of using them whilst either side or headlights are on so would like a kit that would make sure they aren't on with other lights.

I'll deffo look for an E mark as standard.

Lum

pitkin2020 wrote: »

Your opinion regarding motorcycles and cyclists is flawed. Most who want to be seen wear a high viz jacket in addition to lights (no different to a driver adding daytime lights instead of high viz jacket i'll add).

A high vis jacket is also a contentious issue as they can actually make it harder to judge the speed and distance of the bike.

Any effect of a high vis is not really going to help when the biker is travelling towards a car anyway and that's pretty much the biggest problem for bikers the "SMIDSY" accident (sorry mate, I didn't see you) where a car pulls out in front of them or into the side of them.

Whilst motorcyclist may have lights on during the day its very rare for a cyclists to have lights on so they aren't exactly going to blend in with all the DRL's on now are they.

If drivers start expecting road users to have lights then cyclists, and pedestrians will become effectively invisible.

Personally I think that if you must have DRLs, the kind found on the Volvo 740 are about the best. Not so bright that they dazzle people and leave after images on the retina like modern ones, and because they have a clearly defined shape and size you can still judge the speed and distance of the vehicle.

pitkin2020

Trebor16 wrote: »

The nature of this forum is, whether you like it or not,you will get topics diverting slightly.

Slightly is fine if advice that is on topic is still offered, making assumptions and going totally off topic is irrelevant and pointless



You have contradicted yourself. In post 13 you said:-

"Its not that i'm so much worried about being seen"

Now you say the opposite.

Not all a contradiction, I said "Its not that i'm so much worried about being seen" as in me personally but i'm not the only user of the car so making the CAR more visible for others drivers is the aim of the game



Not at all, it is an opinion shared with the British Motorcyclists Federation (BMF), the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) and the Federation of European Motorcyclists Associations {FEMA). The following cycling groups are also concerned about DRL's:-

CTC
European Cyclists Federation

A number of pedestrian groups are also concerned about them.

Lights on lights off motorcyclists have been complaining about lack of road presence for ever more.

People have already adapted their driving habits because of changes in technology over the years so it is not unreasonable to think that they will change habits in respect of DRL's and how thoroughly they look when emerging from junctions on to main roads. If they start looking for a light source as confirmation of the presence of another vehicle they are goign to potentially miss cars that are not fitted with them or cyclists. They are also going to have problems picking out motorcyclists in amongst a sea of vehicles with DRL's illuminated.

Let's face it, emergency service motorcyclists get knocked off their bikes, which are marked, with reflective and high vis markings and the riders are wearing high vis jackets. What will the chances be of ordinary motorcyclists in amongst a greater quantity of othere vehicles which all have DRL's?

So what your saying is police motorbikes with flashing lights get hit so a motorcycle driving in front of a car with DRL's in daylight will make what difference to the motorcyclist?? NONE, if the driver emerging doesn't see the motorcyclist they aren't going to see him/her regardless. Your making out like DRL's are 5 million candlewatt bulbs blinding everyone and the only thing visiable, when in reality in daylight conditions they are very low, noticeable but thats about it. Not even as bright as motorcycle light.

Trebor16

pitkin wrote:

Slightly is fine if advice that is on topic is still offered, making assumptions and going totally off topic is irrelevant and pointless

It's the nature of the forum and since your enquiry is in relation to DRL's then the comments made here are not off topic when bringing up then potential issues.

pitkin wrote:

Not all a contradiction, I said "Its not that i'm so much worried about being seen" as in me personally but i'm not the only user of the car so making the CAR more visible for others drivers is the aim of the game

You didn't say "as in me personally" in post 13. You made it perfectly clear that being seen was not a priority. Now you are backpeddling.

pitkin wrote:

Lights on lights off motorcyclists have been complaining about lack of road presence for ever more

And they are complaining even more thanks to DRL's and the problems they will cause.

pitkin2020 wrote: »

So what your saying is police motorbikes with flashing lights get hit so a motorcycle driving in front of a car with DRL's in daylight will make what difference to the motorcyclist?? NONE, if the driver emerging doesn't see the motorcyclist they aren't going to see him/her regardless.

And that is going to be the potential problem when drivers start looking for just a light source, see nothing, and then pull out in front of a vehicle that was there, but they didn't see because they didn't look properly.

pitkin wrote:

Your making out like DRL's are 5 million candlewatt bulbs blinding everyone and the only thing visiable, when in reality in daylight conditions they are very low, noticeable but thats about it. Not even as bright as motorcycle light.

Where did I say that? That's a creation of your imagination, not from what I have said.

pitkin2020

Lum wrote: »

A high vis jacket is also a contentious issue as they can actually make it harder to judge the speed and distance of the bike.

Any effect of a high vis is not really going to help when the biker is travelling towards a car anyway and that's pretty much the biggest problem for bikers the "SMIDSY" accident (sorry mate, I didn't see you) where a car pulls out in front of them or into the side of them.

If drivers start expecting road users to have lights then cyclists, and pedestrians will become effectively invisible.

Personally I think that if you must have DRLs, the kind found on the Volvo 740 are about the best. Not so bright that they dazzle people and leave after images on the retina like modern ones, and because they have a clearly defined shape and size you can still judge the speed and distance of the vehicle.

Maybe they should ban motorcycles, problem solved!!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Trebor16

Or they could ban drivers who need lights on in the day to help them spot a 1.5 ton of metal that is being driven around.:D