Car Insurance: clean license, but still stung on SP30... WHY???

Joe555

raskazz wrote: »

Utter rubbish. If a fixed penalty is imposed the driver is convicted of the offence.

No. Here's a wikipedia link to start you off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_penalty_notice

Second paragraph, second line.

Quentin

Don't get excited.

Wikipedia is not one of the usual law reference books!

(Your point in the second para actually is referring to parking tickets etc issued where local authorities have decriminalised parking misdemeanours so that they can control the parking instead of leaving it to the police.)

Joe555

No, but it's a simple explanation, and without access to the references at the office I am stuck with google! I'll find something from another source of you wish. The fact remains - a FPN is not a conviction, only a court can convict someone.

(And the first section of the link refers to FPN's in general terms - the differences between the specific types are discussed further down).

raskazz

Joe555 wrote: »

No. Here's a wikipedia link to start you off

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_penalty_notice

Second paragraph, second line.

This states:

"Some other motoring offences (other than parking) can also be dealt with by the issue of FPNs by police, VOSA or local authority personnel."

Nothing in there to support your view at all.

thenudeone

raskazz wrote: »

Utter rubbish. If a fixed penalty is imposed the driver is convicted of the offence. Hence why there is a column "Conviction Date" which is completed accordingly on the paper counterpart..

Absolutely correct.

The legislation to confirm that is here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/part/III/crossheading/conditional-offer-of-fixed-penalty-in-scotland?view=extent
Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (as amended)
Conditional offer of fixed penalty.
77 Endorsement where penalty paid

(7)Where the counterpart of a person’s licence is endorsed under this section he shall be treated for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act and of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as if—
(a)he had been convicted of the offence,
(b)the endorsement had been made in pursuance of an order made on his conviction by a court under section 44 of this Act, and
(c)the particulars of the offence endorsed by virtue of subsection (5)(a) above were particulars of his conviction of that offence.

Touche

Joe555

Notwithstanding the merits or otherwise of wikipedia, have a look at Section 52(1) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 which defines a FPN as '...a notice offering the opportunity of the discharge of any liability to conviction of the offence to which the notice relates by payment of a fixed penalty...'

So, pay the FPN and avoid conviction.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53

Joe555

Treated as if he had been convicted, which is not the same as convicted.

raskazz

Joe555 wrote: »

Treated as if he had been convicted, which is not the same as convicted.

The full sentence:

"shall be treated for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act and of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as if—"

So we come full circle - for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act an FPN for a motoring offence is to be treated as a conviction and therefore must be disclosed to insurers for 5 years from the date of conviction if a fine was the sentence imposed

Quentin

keith1950 wrote: »

The Troll appears to have crawled back under his bridge !

Or changed his name!!!!

glowdawn

raskazz wrote: »

The full sentence:

"shall be treated for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act and of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 as if—"

So we come full circle - for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act an FPN for a motoring offence is to be treated as a conviction and therefore must be disclosed to insurers for 5 years from the date of conviction if a fine was the sentence imposed

You are misinterpreting that clause by ignoring the part you didn't make bold, that is, "for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act...".

It says "for the purposes of sections 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 of this Act" because those sections of the Act are specifically about actual convictions or orders by a court (not simply an FPN). You can read those specific sections of the Act 13(4), 28, 29 and 45 at that same link by clicking on 'Table of Contents'.