The Work Programme New Thread

looby75

donnajunkie wrote: »

they have been following a process that is acceptable to the jobcentre. a form with the amount and a signature is all that they really require. there is really only ever justification for asking for proof when they have been given reason to be suspitious.

looby75 wrote: »

that must just be your JC then because every time I've got my bus fare back from them I've had to show my ticket, they check it and write the amount on a form, pass the money through the hatch with the form, which I then sign.

donnajunkie wrote: »

as far as claiming at the jobcentre itself that has often been the case here too. just not always.

am I missing something here?

donnajunkie

looby75 wrote: »

am I missing something here?

yes probably. in the first post you quoted i was refering to providers of courses. some of which dont ask for a ticket. they just get you to sign a form with the amount stated on it. the jobcentre cant have had an issue with this otherwise they would have stopped doing it.
the other 2 posts quoted are in relation to claiming expenses at the jobcentre itself.
it seems to me that whether you get asked for a ticket may depend on whether the person you are dealing with is a jobs worth or not. in other case it seems like it is company policy for that particular organisation rather than them actually having to do it because the jobcentre says. that is the excuse they give whenever someone questions it.

geoffky

LadyMissA wrote: »

I would never get sanctioned as I am not that stupid.

You are...as you do not know ALL the rules of the game..and they will not tell you them all. they make all the rules..

oneofmillions768

Still not quite sure what your rights are on the following;

1) When you go to the Job Centre for the last time before transferring to the Work Programme are you legally obliged to sign the form which amends your JSA agreement? Can you just say am happy with my present agreement, would there be any consequences if you didn't sign it?

Had the following answers for above question

"You still have to sign on with JC and look for jobs etc"
"Generally speaking yes you will have to."

LadyMissA was on about the Job Centre lying about signing the form above to one customer, saying it will affect their benefits. Quote below

"

LadyMissA wrote: »

No they can not - they have lied to you!

IT SAYS IT ON THE FORM YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SIGN AND IT WILL NOT EFFECT YOUR BENEFITS!

"

Has anybody not signed the amended JSA form when you to the Job Centre for when they switch you to the Work Programme?

If someone has not signed, were there any comebacks?

Really fustrating not knowing what your rights are. To be truthful, am doing all I can to find work and sick to death being treated like some sort of leper because am unemployed and thus easy to push around.

Now am in the boat of being switched to the Work Programme next few days, and will probably have to sign the amended JSA agreement and Data Protection waiver because I have a young family and really couldn't afford any sanction, which would mean less money coming in. Case of having you by the ba***

2) In your first day on the Work Programme, can you refuse to sign the waiver for the Data Protection Act (don't give consent)? If I don't sign what are the consequences?

Answers had so far;

"If you refuse then you get a max of 26weeks of no payments"
"This isn't mandatory, read and re-read any forms they give you to sign. The wording should make it clear that your rights to participate in the programme will not change if you don't give consent"

Is is true that you will be sanctioned if you don't sign the waiver and if not will they make it difficult for you so that they do indeed sanction you further down the line?

looby75

if you are worried onefomillions then sign the waver and then as soon as you have a job write to them to withdraw consent.

Thats what I'm planning on doing. As for refusing to change your JSA agreement, if you already have an agreement that means it's possible for you to find work then I don't see how they can make you sign anything else.

I know LadyMissA was made to sign one that said she was available 24/7 but I don't think she has children or any caring restrictions and it sounds as though you do.

If you don't mind me asking what is on your JSA agreement now (you don't have to be specific)

donnajunkie

oneofmillions768 wrote: »

1) When you go to the Job Centre for the last time before transferring to the Work Programme are you legally obliged to sign the form which amends your JSA agreement? Can you just say am happy with my present agreement, would there be any consequences if you didn't sign it?

the jsa agreement isnt amended. you just sign a form giving permission for them to pass the details of your jsa agreement over to the provider. whether you have to or not i dont know. some will say you dont have to. whether you want to risk it is upto you. the furthest i would go with it if i were you is to ask them the question, do i have to sign this. i dont see any benefit in stopping them passing on the details because if they dont have the specifics to work with that effectively allows them to do anything with you. of course they probably often take liberties and try and make people do things that go against whats on their jsa agreement anyway. the chances of that are higher though if they dont have your jsa agreement.

out_of_cash

The form you mention to give permission for the them to pass your info to provider,i wasnt given one. I was asked to sign the data protection disclaimer so they can share your info with all of uk of which i declined as is your right.

They can sanction you for thisif they want, and if they do it will be overturned in the job seekeres favour.Citizens advice are stacked up with complaints about benefits sanctions that is costing millions,so through their bloody mindedness of hammering the unemployed they are just bashing the tax payer at the same tme for their own incompetence of not bringing in enough business to uk ltd.

The obvious to me of stopping them passing on your details/data is that you are then not going tobe put in a position of working for a very low income etc and also stopping the provider making a financial gain from any efforts which i no doubt will be 90% of people will find positions on their own back without the help of a govermental glorified cowboy agency which is exactly as these providers are playing at.

IMHO anyone looking upon them to secure a decent position are going to be very dissapointed indeed.I am am still waiting on 2 mps to get back to me with success results on how many people have been placed into full time work with hourly rates of pay they can pay their mortgage or rent on, run a car etc.Its now been 4 months and 3 reminders, anyone know why they are not replying.lol.

chris graylings dept some wks back made a statement as to the success rate being at 20%, probably all working in poundland etc ,no offence to anyone working there but the work programme and goverment seeem o have a very healthy appetite for these places of work.

sorry for the rant but ive had a gut full of this WP crap.Seems they also have money to burn on sending people on courses which is highly likely not to increase their chances of employment,every course thatwill help me ive been told,no,no,no,no,.

oneofmillions768

looby75 wrote: »

if you are worried onefomillions then sign the waver and then as soon as you have a job write to them to withdraw consent.

Thats what I'm planning on doing. As for refusing to change your JSA agreement, if you already have an agreement that means it's possible for you to find work then I don't see how they can make you sign anything else.

I know LadyMissA was made to sign one that said she was available 24/7 but I don't think she has children or any caring restrictions and it sounds as though you do.

If you don't mind me asking what is on your JSA agreement now (you don't have to be specific)

Just your bog standard JSA agreement, phone/write/family&friends/newspapers/travel upto 2 hrs etc

Weird thing was when I went in to change over to the Work Programme, my advisor at the Job Centre didn't make me sign any new Job Seeker's agreement. Always thought you had to sign a new JSA before being put onto the Work Programme.

Now just waiting for the call.....

LadyMissA

Ok guys I had what they called the 'final draft' letter emailed to me re the questions What is the Work Programme and what can it do or should be doing for me.

This is (I guess) the last reply yet I do not feel it answers anything I have asked and if the WP provider tell me there is nothing they can do for me, then what? This is only proven by again this week turning up for my appointment and being in the buliding 8 minutes then just told see you in four weeks. Still just have to email (a new adviser - yeah 3 in 4 months) 5 jobs a week for them to put on my file & that's all!! I give up really I do!!

Anyway, here is the letter from Geoff Daft (again)



Thankyou for your further correspondence concerning the Work Programme. I have beenasked to respond.

I am sorry that you weredisappointed with the previous replies and hope that this response will provideyou with the information you requested concerning the Work Programme.

The Work Programme was launched on 10 June 2011 andis now in place nationally and has replaced much of the complex range ofemployment support previously on offer including the New Deals, EmploymentZones and Pathways to Work. These programmes were overly prescriptive andfailed to achieve enough job outcomes for the long-term unemployed and delivergood value for money for the taxpayer.

Work Programme providers are free to design supportbased on individual and local need. They will be paid primarily for supportingclaimants into employment and helping them stay there for longer than everbefore, with higher payments for supporting the hardest to help.

For the first time providers will be paid partlyout of the benefit savings they help to realise when they support claimantsinto sustained employment, tying what the Department pays them to what they arebeing paid for.


The Work Programme is for those people who are atrisk of long-term unemployment. Jobcentre Plus will continue to support benefitclaimants during the first months of their claim. Since April 2011 JobcentrePlus has been given greater freedom to do so in a way that addresses the needsof the individual and local labour market more effectively.

Once referred, claimants remain on the WorkProgramme for two years or until the provider has claimed all availablepayments for the time the individual spends in employment. This gives providerstime to invest in addressing claimants’ long term challenges. Work Programmeproviders have complete flexibility to innovate and to design support thataddresses the needs of the individual and the local labour market.

As explained previously, there are strong incentives forproviders to deliver a high quality service to all claimants and to address anycomplaints that arise appropriately. If a claimant feels they have not receivedadequate support or is otherwise dissatisfied with their provider, they can usethe strengthened complaints process and raise their complaint with theIndependent Case Examiner.


Yours sincerely

---

As I still do not know what they are meant to be doing as this says ALL providers work in a different way that is 100% proof that everyone is just making it up as they go as they have no idea what to do with people!

How can anyone make a complaint if they have no idea what to expect!! To think that were all under the impression that the WP would be tailor made for each person but it seems its it geared to the lowest common denominator!

out_of_cash

LadyMissA wrote: »

Not courses, but a Maths and English test? I wondered why I heard most people on here have had to do them even someone I know, her sister had to but not me.

Hi LaddyMissA,

do you have a specialist type of skill etc.work in a particular field.

If so, you maybe lucky and not get stuffed onto one of these pass the time of day courses. Ive heard the main reason they are doing these courses is that its free money for the providers to collect on,just send so mant people per course = £££££££££££££££ for them.:mad: