The Work Programme New Thread

donnajunkie

strangeotron wrote: »

This is my understanding of the WP. There are sites that discuss what the rules providers have to follow are as well as what claimants have to do. Go to www.consent.me.uk.

When a provider wants you to do something you have no choice in it's considered mandatory. Such activities have to be set out in writing. This is in the work programme provider guidelines chapter 3 that's on the DWP's own site (i don't have a link offhand). Such a text is usually referred to as an action plan; the point is that the claimant is meant to have access to this list of activities at any time. Providers can't just decide on a whim you have to do this or that. So long as you fulfill your JSAg there shouldn't be a problem.

of course these providers seem to think they can do what they like and cause trouble by referring you to a DWP decision maker as they see fit. But the rules are the rules. Also you don't have to sign an action plan. Refusing to do so will probably !!!! them off, but it is not meant to affect your entitlement to receive benefits.

You don't have to sign your personal info to the provider and if they are putting you forward for jobs without your say so then they risk breaking the rules.

What individuals do about this is entirely up to them and I caveat all the above by saying this is my understanding of the rules. I encourage everyone on this awful scheme to look up for themselves, make FOI requests, and get wise. These people are not here to help you, certainly not in my experience. If some people get help or enjoy the scheme then that's entirely their prerogative.

I doubt we will see the likes of Mr Moneysavingexpert Martin Lewis exposing this scam anytime soon, so it's up to us.

people are still subject to jobcentre rules. jobcentre rules say people have to be flexible when deciding what to apply for after 13 weeks of claiming. you cant refuse a job without good reason. so if you refuse to apply for a job you can do the provider is likely to tell the jobcentre you arent fulfilling your jsa agreement.

strangeotron

john539 wrote: »

There is no chance of WP being scrapped anytime soon.

Grayling is on record saying trumpeted flagship Work Programme is on-track.

It would be a massive failure & humiliation to admit it isn't working & scrap it.

The government will do whatever it takes to make it look like its working and put pressure on providers to get "results" by hook or by crook.

.

Exactly. He will make it work - or be seen to work - regardless of how that affects people or how many lies he tells, or how many statistics he skews or facts he ignores. We are in for a very rough ride: once you're on the WP you are in the hands of the provider for 2 years, regardless of whether or not you stop claiming or change your claim or anything. The programme's provision has nothing to do with the JC, and all they will tell you, if you have a problem with your provider, is to make a complaint to them. There's nothing the JC can really do about it, even though the DWP is meant to be responsible for the whole thing. It really is just awful.

dandelionclock30

What happens after the two years? do you get referred back to the jobcentre or another provider?

strangeotron

donnajunkie wrote: »

people are still subject to jobcentre rules. jobcentre rules say people have to be flexible when deciding what to apply for after 13 weeks of claiming. you cant refuse a job without good reason. so if you refuse to apply for a job you can do the provider is likely to tell the jobcentre you arent fulfilling your jsa agreement.

In order to claim JSA you must fulfill the conditions of your Jobseekers Agreement. These get reviewed after 13 weeks, but whatever is subsequently agreed works the same: you have to abide by it. You can't be told to simply 'be flexible' because that means nothing. That's why the JSAg exists.
Some JC's send claimants info through the post and may put them down for jobs without their say so. I'm not sure if that's allowed, but the above post was specifically in reference to the Work programme.
You have to apply for everything you've agreed to apply for and do everything you've agreed to do (read the local papers, etc). So if they tell you about a job you have to be careful in what you say. I'm not sure whether they can push for a sanction on the basis of you refusing that. But that's the grey area: the whole 'a doubt has arisen' as to your claim is nebulous.
However once you are on the WP the jobsearch is meant to be done by the provider. When you sign on the JC is supposed to just take a signature and check that jobsearch record as per what you've agreed.
Advisers can't just decide you should be doing 'more' or that, if you're fulfilling all that's required as per your JSAg, you aren't doing 'enough' because that's 'more' is meaningless. How much more, and of what?

strangeotron

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

What happens after the two years? do you get referred back to the jobcentre or another provider?

I'm not entirely sure, but the government are pushing their Community Action Programme for people in that position. This is unpaid work, for up to 26 weeks, that's supposed to be in the community. Workfare, basically. Community Service, essentially. So if you 'fail' the WP you get punished as if you've broken the law. They call this help; I call it slavery.

dandelionclock30

I have no problem with doing community work as there is a lot of un met need in the community but people should be paid at NMW. People say but the claimant gets their Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and JSA plus free prescriptions etc.
Its not true as there are many people who just get the basic JSA and thats it.
Theres going to be a lot of people on the post 2 year programme then because there really is very little available job wize. People who are in jobs dont really fully appreciate how bad it is.

scooby088

I am on the WP and have signed on with agencies in the attempt to get work, but when they only offer a few days here and there do i sign off for two days or declare that i have worked and then screw up my benefits. Then i still have the WP and job centre to answer to, it's a real no win situation really, i would like to sign off and tell the WP and job centre to go screw themselves.

Vincent_Buenisedes

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

I have no problem with doing community work as there is a lot of un met need in the community but people should be paid at NMW. People say but the claimant gets their Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit and JSA plus free prescriptions etc.
Its not true as there are many people who just get the basic JSA and thats it.
Theres going to be a lot of people on the post 2 year programme then because there really is very little available job wize. People who are in jobs dont really fully appreciate how bad it is.

There's very little community work on the Community Action Programme - it mainly consists of working in charity shops, just as it was on New Deal, but this time for 26 weeks instead of 13. The only time you see people doing the type of work most people think of benefiting the community, i.e., cleaning graffitie, clearing rubbish, is only done when someone wants the publicity and their photo in the paper. They can't even guarantee the full 30 hours a week in the charity shops, because the places are being filled by the people sent by Work Programme and Jobcentreplus!

strangeotron

Vincent_Buenisedes wrote: »

There's very little community work on the Community Action Programme - it mainly consists of working in charity shops, just as it was on New Deal, but this time for 26 weeks instead of 13. The only time you see people doing the type of work most people think of benefiting the community, i.e., cleaning graffitie, clearing rubbish, is only done when someone wants the publicity and their photo in the paper. They can't even guarantee the full 30 hours a week in the charity shops, because the places are being filled by the people sent by Work Programme and Jobcentreplus!

And Grayling, liar that he is, has gone to great lengths to set in stone that people on the CAP will ONLY be sent to do community work/community projects. IE, not be mandated to serve in charity shops.

This government is an utter disgrace.

KevInChester

Aiming to go to a jobs fair tomorrow which is quite a distance from where I live, what are the odds that I can get the WP provider to pay for travel costs? (under a tenner) I know they pay for interviews, not sure about work fairs, will call them up later anyway, just asking here in the meantime. I'll go regardless though.