Atheist and the nativity

JCP

As someone who was educated in Catholic schools for both Primary & Secondary education, I think the whole religious thing is nonsense. At the age of 5 I was made to stand in a corner for an hour for asking a simple question about Adam & Eve (along the lines of: if Adam & Eve only had 2 sons, where did everyone else come from?) I came to the conclusion that any religion that couldn't adequately answer the question of a 5yr old was unlikely to be true. I kept up the pretence to keep my parents happy until I was in my early teens and then point blank refused to go to church - I'd better things to do with my time. Now I only go to church for marriages and deaths, and that is out of respect for the individuals involved. I won't do christenings.

If people need a crutch to help them get through their lives and it doesn't affect me, then good on them.
The reality is though, that it does affect me.
When you have religious figures automatically given places in our Government and influencing our laws then something is clearly wrong.

Having said all that.
Let your kid do the Nativity, it is just a harmless story after all like so many others they will hear in childhood.

Soubrette

newcook wrote: »

I think its such a shame that people are saying that Father Christmas is a fictional character when he has actually evolved from St Nick…!

I am truly shocked by this :eek: (well a little bit )

Father Christmas (Pere Noel and probably other names in other countries) has a very different root from the St Nick, Santa Claus ones. He is a much more shadowy and possibly pagan figure - the two have merged but they did not start of as one and the same.

newcook

Soubrette wrote: »

I am truly shocked by this :eek: (well a little bit )

Father Christmas (Pere Noel and probably other names in other countries) has a very different root from the St Nick, Santa Claus ones. He is a much more shadowy and possibly pagan figure - the two have merged but they did not start of as one and the same.

every day's a school day!!!

though I think we can both agree then that Father christmas was not a fictional character?!!

Soubrette

newcook wrote: »

every day's a school day!!!

though I think we can both agree then that Father christmas was not a fictional character?!!

The current incarnation of Father Christmas (our heritage) or Santa Claus (North American heritage) is very much fictional.

I did read an article once that said that proof of the existence of Nikolaos of Myra is very sketchy and he is probably a folktale in himself.

I didn't keep bookmark it though so couldn't argue that pov with any conviction

patchwork_cat

Person_one wrote: »

Ah, then technically he should probably call himself an agnostic.

Atheism means literally 'without belief'

Agnostic means 'without knowledge'.

Exactly what I was thinking. I am an agnostic and believe that more people are in fact agnostic rather than atheist.

thorsoak

OP - if you are prepared to tell your daughter that there is no god, are you also prepared to tell her that there is no father christmas?

USM

thorsoak wrote: »

OP - if you are prepared to tell your daughter that there is no god, are you also prepared to tell her that there is no father christmas?

I'm not sure that's an appropriate comparison. Father Christmas is a fun, and largely harmless piece of fantasty.

Organised religion on the other hand is inherently unhealthy and scary.

Nobody ever started a war over father christmas as far as I'm aware.

onlyroz

Unfortunately, the British education system is still "broadly Christian", and children are still meant to have an act of "broadly Christian" daily worship. You can withdraw your children from this if you want, but that might lead to other exclusion/inclusion issues.

Whenever my son starts spouting on about God and Jesus, I just tell him that some people believe in these things but I choose not to.

I have also had to deal with other similar questions relating to his muslim friend, who doesn't eat certain types of meat. My son got a bit confused about the difference between not liking something, and not being allowed to eat it. He then saw a picture of a black man in one of his story books and said "does that man eat meat?" I then most likely confused the poor boy further with an attempt at explaining the difference between race and religion.

serious_saver

Person_one wrote: »

If nothing else, learning about religions can be really interesting. I loved it as a kid, still do, everything from the Greek myths to Jewish mysticism. You don't have to believe to enjoy learning about beliefs.

Some religious people are really surprised that I know just as much if not more about their faith than they do, as if believers have a monopoly on the knowledge.

I whole heartedly agree with this. I loved Religious Studies in school because I was fascinated by the history, traditions, cultures and the stories.

When I was in high school there were a number of pupils who were excused from Religion Studies classes because their parents didn't want them to learn about religions. I always felt sorry for them because they missed out on what was the most fascinating subject to study.

erichamster

Person_one wrote: »

Ah, then technically he should probably call himself an agnostic.

Atheism means literally 'without belief'

Agnostic means 'without knowledge'.

I think Professor Dawkins would most certainly identify himself as an atheist, what he has said (and where I think the misunderstanding has come from) is that he cannot absolutely disprove the existence of a god, much in the same way that none of us can absolutely disprove the existence of fairies or unicorns or an orbiting teapot.

We (most of us) merely operate from the practicaL standpoint that things which have absolutely no real, demonstarable, scientific positive evidence in their favour do not exist for all intents and purposes.

You should see the Unicorn Challenge at Camp Quest, a summer camp where children are invited every year to disprove the existence of two silent, invisible, intangible unicorn! The prize (a 100 dollar bill) has never been won.