Section 21

thesaint

babe_ruth wrote:

Hi Clutton bear with me,

So, AST signed along with section21 on 1st Jan at start of tenenacy.

Question 1: Will the S21 have to be dated 30th June?

Question 2: Get to 30th June and tenants turn out to be fine. Do I then issue another one?

Question 3: Do I just keep giving them S21's say every six months just incase further down the line I need to get them out?

Sorry to persist but I really would like to understand :huh:

The best way to proceed in your case(and most others) is to issue an S21 when you want your property back. It can get very confusing as i'm sure you are aware.

clutton_2

the only real answer is to join the national landlords association !!!!

prudryden

babe_ruth wrote:

Hi Clutton bear with me,

So, AST signed along with section21 on 1st Jan at start of tenenacy.

Question 1: Will the S21 have to be dated 30th June?

Question 2: Get to 30th June and tenants turn out to be fine. Do I then issue another one?

Question 3: Do I just keep giving them S21's say every six months just incase further down the line I need to get them out?

Sorry to persist but I really would like to understand :huh:

I have been told substantially that once you have issued an S21, you can't issue another one. And, that was the reason, you shouldn't issue one at the beginning of the tenancy.

However, I believe that the RLA suggests that you should issue one at the beginning.

Because of the difference of opinions, I have decided to err on NOT giving one at the beginning of a tenancy. I am hoping that because my background checks are fairly good - original passports or drivers license, original utility bill to prove previous address, and normal employment and reference checks, and the fact I only rent to professionals, I should be allright and, hopefully, never have to issue a termination order. My tenants can stay for years, if they like.
When my tenants leave, it usually is to buy their own place.

babe_ruth_3

thanks everyone for your input I suppose It boils down to difference in opinions and different interpretaions of the S21.

I just have to make my own mind up now.

clutton_2

i cannot see the logic in not being able to issue another one. If the specified date (as you can choose to put on a 21) has expired - why can't you issue another one later on ?

franklee

OK this is what I don't get. If you issue a S21 at the start to expire after 6 months (when the fixed term ends), what makes you think the tenant won't leave?

Post #30 explains a tenants thinking which as another tenant I agree with:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=4219191&postcount=30

It works like this, you issue a S21 telling me to leave at the end of the fixed term and I leave then!

If you really wanted me to leave then you would want me to do what the S21 says.

All the S21's mean the same to me.

So why would I ignore one and not another?

I just do what the paperwork my landlord issues tells me to do (providing the paperwork is valid). Surely that's what you expect me to do?

Would you rather tenants ignore all S21 notices?

What am I missing?!

Tassotti

I always issue a Section 21 at the start of the tenancy (not before). It is a safeguard for LL's, as, if the tenant is a bad one, accelerated possession can be obtained.

To the OP, read Landlordzone forums, search for section 21 and all the info you need will be there.

Dates are extremely important when issuing notices. If AST begins on 1st Jan, then notice must state LL requires property AFTER June 30th.

I always explain to the tenant that the S21 is a document required by the insurance company, but, as long as everyone is happy to continue then the tenancy will become periodic after the fixed term.

jamesd

Tassotti wrote:

I always explain to the tenant that the S21 is a document required by the insurance company

What do you say when I ask you which insurance company and why and call them to verify your claim? Which I will do, because that sounds like a lie to me and that gives me an indication of the future conduct I must expect from you.

Then you expect the tenant to gamble on being able to find a place with no notice on the day the S21 expires and the tenant has to leave. If you come seeking a new AST a couple of months before the tenancy ends you might be fast enough to beat me putting down a deposit on another place. Once that deposit is in place, I'm not going to be staying.

When do you agree a new AST so that the tenant isn't placed in the position of having to ignore the impending end of a tenancy agreement which has already been terminated?

Tassotti wrote:

as long as everyone is happy to continue then the tenancy will become periodic after the fixed term.

What form of tenancy does the tenant have once they are living in the property after you gave notice and terminated the original one and they are now beyond the term for which the terminated AST was valid?

At a minimum it sounds as though you're trying to leave them without a normal periodic notice period but instead vulnerable to accelerated reposession for being in the property after the end of the tenancy.

Tiglet

jamesd wrote:

A "reasonable" worst case is them evicted months after the notice ends, having wrecked the place, with you also out of pocket for court costs before you get to spend a few thousand refurbishing the place. Such are the joys of being a landlord.

That's pretty much what happened to me (amongst other things:mad: ) so I've been through the whole process - it's not pleasant.

As a result, I've had some experience of a lot of the things being discussed here. Rather than putting everything into one long post, I'm splitting them up so that they (I hope) make more sense.

Tiglet

jamesd wrote:

When do you agree a new AST so that the tenant isn't placed in the position of having to ignore the impending end of a tenancy agreement which has already been terminated?

I'm going through a letting agency, and what they do is contact both the landlord and tenant just over 2 months before the end of the tenancy to find out what they wat to do. That way, if the landlord wants to end things, the tenant has a reasonable time to find somewhere else. Also if the tenant doesn't want to stay, the landlord has a couple of months to find a new tenant. Seems to work well all round.