Section 21

prudryden

babe_ruth wrote:

I'm more confused than ever now

They will get a 6 months AST. Then , as I understand it, it continues as a periodic tenancy. From then on I have to give them two months notice if I want them out and they have to give me 1 months notice if they want to leave, right?

Now, what is the actual point of the section 21? I was thinking that somehow it was extra leverage if you were having trouble getting them to leave.

I'm almost there. I will let you know as soon as the cloud clears.

prudryden

Babe,

As I understand it, you are issuing a 6mo AST (End of contract is 6months).
If your intention is to regain possession at that time, you must issue a S21 at least two months before the expiry of your contract. You do not have to give a reason. You can give a S21 at the beginning of the tenancy, but not before. I guess the reason for issuing at the start is so you don't forget later if it is absolutely vital that you regain possession.

If you want them out before 6mo because of a breach of contract, then you have to issue a S8, giving which ground e.g. ground 14 (Nuisance to neighbours, visitors etc), ground 17 (Gave false statements, which you relied on) or 10,11,12,13, or 15. Ground 2 and 8 are mandatory possession. The other grounds are at the discretion of the judge.

Frank - Am I almost getting this right now?

deary65

prudryden wrote:

Only if the rent is accepted. If it is returned, then it has not been accepted and no rent has been paid.

Read my post properly, I said pays not offer,I think I'm begining to understand why you people have such a poor grasp of the law.

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Frank - Am I almost getting this right now?

prudryden, Seems about right to me. One small point to add. As a Section 8 isn't guaranteed to work, the tenant may pay off rent arrears for example, the landlord may want to issue a S21 as well as a S8 so that he has something to fall back on if he wants the tenant to leave and the S8 fails.

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Only if the rent is accepted. If it is returned, then it has not been accepted and no rent has been paid.

The S21 remains valid even if payment is accepted. Otherwise a S21 issued during a fixed term wouldn't work. The tenant would just pay the next months rent and stay on and the landlord would have to start the two months notice all over again. It doesn't happen like that. There is no need to return the money, the landlord can keep the payments, some say they need to call them mense profits, others say that it doens't matter (I don't think it does) while waiting to evict the tenant, and who wouldn't the landlord doesn't want arrears building up.

babe_ruth_3

[QUOTE=

As I understand it, you are issuing a 6mo AST (End of contract is 6months).
If your intention is to regain possession at that time, you must issue a S21 at least two months before the expiry of your contract. You do not have to give a reason. You can give a S21 at the beginning of the tenancy, but not before. I guess the reason for issuing at the start is so you don't forget later if it is absolutely vital that you regain possession.[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid here but what is the difference then, between giving them a S21 and a nice letter saying that you would like them to vacate the property in two months time?:huh:

prudryden

babe_ruth wrote:

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid here but what is the difference then, between giving them a S21 and a nice letter saying that you would like them to vacate the property in two months time?:huh:

I personally don't think there is any difference. That is why I am struggling with why it seems to be so important to issue it at the beginning of a tenancy.

Frank - You were saying that a S21 could have an expiry date of "after ----",
but I think I read somewhere that it has to have an expiry date corresponding with the date of the expiry of the term. Have you heard that one?

thesaint

Sorry if I'm being a bit stupid here but what is the difference then, between giving them a S21 and a nice letter saying that you would like them to vacate the property in two months time?

On this point, an S21 has to have the correct terminology on it otherwise it would not stand up in court, and the tenant would stay by default.
The landlord would have to start the whole process again.

jamesd

babe ruth, the advantage is to a letting agency. As a tenant, if served a section 21 at the start of a tenancy I'd immediately start looking for another place to live becuase I've been told that I must move out at the end of the initial tenancy period. That increases churn and revenue for agencies, at the cost of less revenue for landlords and more uncertainty about housing for tenants.

Only serve a section 21 at the start of a tenancy if you are sure that you definitely want the tenant to leave, regardless of how good they turn out to be. You might do this if you want to sell the place without a tenant (though buyers won't necesarily care if they want to let the place - tenant in place saves cost).

The normal notice periods are fine for getting troublesome tenants out and don't cause the good ones to start looking for a new place immediately. Once they find one they aren't going to be interested in staying in yours because they will already be committed to the new place.

Basically: serve a section 21 and you guarantee that the tenants won't consider it a secure home and hence won't become committed to staying in it as your tenants. Which is exactly the opposite of what a landlord looking to avoid voids normally wants.

babe_ruth_3

The conclusion I am coming to is that in my situation there is no need for a S21.

The only reason I would want a tenant out is if they were giving me grief (ie; not paying rent or not taking good care of the property etc) and I should be able to do that anyway if I give them 2 months notice, right?

Even if I was to issue a S21 at sometime I would still have to wait the 2 months anyway, wouldn't I?