Section 21

leh1980

If you issue a S21 Notice at the start of a tenancy (but after agreement signed) then the tenant cannot walk out immediately without notice.

The s21 notice brings the tenancy to an end of the end of the fixed term so the tenant is still responsible for the rent for the fixed term period. If your tenant did walk about immedately then you would be able to sue them for the rent for the entire period of the fixed term (subject to mitigation).

prudryden

Leh-

I believe the story I heard was based on a 12mo. AST with a 6mo. break clause. The tenants must normally give a one month notice in the 5th month to vacate on the 6th month. But because a Section 21 was issued to vacate at the beginning of the tenancy, the tenants just left without any notice in the 6th month. Not nice if you were expecting them to stay for 12mo.

franklee

What is the point of serving a S21 when you don't want the tenants to leave? You have to let them stay for the initial fixed term anyway, unless they are bad and you can evict them earlier via a Section 8. So why not make you mind up if you want to keep them once they've been in for a bit and you can tell what they're like. Issuing notice at the start just makes everyone confused on renewal. It's usually done by agents to prevent the tenant being able to stay on a periodic tenancy so that the agent can fleece both tenant and landlord for renewal fees.

In short it is not necessary to issue a S21 at the start.

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Another story I have heard is that if you issue a section 21 at the start, the tenant can turn around and leave without notice, because you have already issued him a Section 21.

This is true after the initial fixed term ends. The tenant can leave without notice at the end of the fixed term anyway. But if instead the tenant remains on a periodic tenancy then the S21 is still in force in which case the tenant can leave without notice at any time and the landlord can apply for a possession order without any further notice as the S21 already issued WAS the notice.

prudryden

Frank -

Which is the fixed term of a 12 mo. AST with a 6mo. break clause, where either party can give notice (the LL in the 4th mo. and the tenant either in 4th or 5th mo depending on contract)? It seems that it is actually the 6mo., even though the contract is good until the 12th mo. What do you think?

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Frank -

Which is the fixed term of a 12 mo. AST with a 6mo. break clause, where either party can give notice (the LL in the 4th mo. and the tenant either in 4th or 5th mo depending on contract)? It seems that it is actually the 6mo., even though the contract is good until the 12th mo. What do you think?

I'd say it depends on when the expiry date on the S21 was. Usually a S21 says expiry date: after dd/mm/yy.

If this date was on the six months point then yes the tenant can leave at six months. The tenant would not need to give notice to do this as the landlord has already done so by issuing the S21. Isn't this is what the landlord would do anyway if he wanted the tenant to leave on the break?

If the S21 expiry date isn't till the 12 months point then I'm not sure what happens. It then comes down to can the tenant leave before the S21 expires? If there isn't a break then the answer is not during the fixed term. I am not sure of the answer if there is a break or a periodic tenancy. Most pople would say no I guess.

deary65

A notice to quit by what ever name you chose to call it,brings a contract in land to an end at a future date, once executed that contract comes to an end. If the tenant holds over and pays rent(without a new contract) that is a new periodic tenancy and a fresh notice to quit must be served expressed to end at the end of the period.

franklee

deary65 wrote:

A notice to quit by what ever name you chose to call it,brings a contract in land to an end at a future date, once executed that contract comes to an end. If the tenant holds over and pays rent(without a new contract) that is a new periodic tenancy and a fresh notice to quit must be served expressed to end at the end of the period.

:wall: :wall:

babe_ruth_3

I'm more confused than ever now

They will get a 6 months AST. Then , as I understand it, it continues as a periodic tenancy. From then on I have to give them two months notice if I want them out and they have to give me 1 months notice if they want to leave, right?

Now, what is the actual point of the section 21? I was thinking that somehow it was extra leverage if you were having trouble getting them to leave.

prudryden

deary65 wrote:

A notice to quit by what ever name you chose to call it,brings a contract in land to an end at a future date, once executed that contract comes to an end. If the tenant holds over and pays rent(without a new contract) that is a new periodic tenancy and a fresh notice to quit must be served expressed to end at the end of the period.

Only if the rent is accepted. If it is returned, then it has not been accepted and no rent has been paid.