ESA, Cant work... yet...

mr2gti

crutches wrote: »

"I seriously cannot understand why some people would be happy they scored 15+ points. I'd be bloody mortified!"

its taken me a long time to process this thread and write an answer.When ive been told by ATOS im not fit to worrk ive been saddened,miserable and angry.Why should I be ashamed of my disability as well?[/QUOTE]

No no - if you get 15 or more and you haven't put anything on - then it's a valid claim surely - what I mean is, i'd be mortified with myself if I went with the main aim of doing what's needed to hit 15 or more.

Mobility of arms is one isn't it, if you can only move them to your chin, it's 9 points, but only to your waist - 15. To make sure you get that extra £26 odd would/do people openly admit to making sure their arms dont move as much as they honestly can...?

eskimo26

mr2gti wrote: »

BINGO!!! This is what i'm looking for - reasons behind why people feel stuck?

Is the Government stopping people getting work - or not doing enough to make sure work exists?

Their is a sizable population of ESA claimants who have chronic conditions, what they need more then anything is a system that is robust and reliable.

Specifically we are talking about flexibility and versatility. The system would need to be able to deal with a work seeker who:
1. Must fit work around their symptoms and will likely have little to no reliability with regards to regular hours.
2. Will need to exercise pacing and grading principles within the workplace.

So then what is needed is a system that will reliably let you slide seamlessness from work back to benefit. Lets look at the fast track on offer for JSA claimants that get temporary work currently. I've lost count of posts from people saying, 'my husband signed off JSA to do his temporary work and it was supposed to be seamless but it took them x amount of weeks or months to reinstate the JSA. This left us with no money for x amount of weeks and months and we'll never take temporary work again because of the situation we were left in as a result.'

These are healthy people, if an ill person was to have this kind of unreliability it would be a disaster for their health.

The second thing is that the reasonable adjusts that need to be made are simply to hard to meet from the average employer. What is needed is an emphasis on self employment, this would solve the problem of irregular hours and the claimant could use their pacing and grading techniques to go along at their own pace as required. This alone would get so many people with long term chronic conditions back into work.

Unfortunately this is either something the Government is unaware of or considers to resource consuming to do. There is no support for supporting people with chronic conditions in self employment. I know that Roger Black is currently attempting to get 'supported' permitted work on ESA on a self employed basis.

This would provide something of the structure i'm talking about, self employed to deal with irregular hours and pacing, support from a supervisor, money available instantly if your health deteriorates (essentially a fall back or safety net, its the consistency that is important here not the amount). I suppose its something of a Prince's Trust for people with chronic conditions caught in this inflexible limbo. Unfortunately Roger Black has hit nothing but brick walls in trying to set it up as far as i know.

I could probably work in a similar fashion as self employed without the supervisor but I don't have the energy to set it up and I don't have the relief of knowing should (actually when not should) I have a relapse that i will have something to support myself on. As the system works currently everytime i have a relapse, and this is the crux of the issue, people with chronic conditions often have good periods but its very variable and unreliable, I would have to go through the whole process of applying again as ill.

mr2gti wrote: »

Mobility of arms is one isn't it, if you can only move them to your chin, it's 9 points, but only to your waist - 15. To make sure you get that extra £26 odd would/do people openly admit to making sure their arms dont move as much as they honestly can...?

No that would be absurd, despite ATOS pledging that their HCPs won't do anything to physically harm you they are quite aggressive and manipulative. If you claim to be unable to do something you will most likely be told to do it or you willl be listed as uncooperative and have your medical failed. I was persuaded to do many things that had me in pain by the time i left, though in all fairness i wasn't threatened she was just very tenatious.

Besides the medicals really aren't a clear indication of anything, most of them are manipulated or all out fabricated. This might sound unsubstantuated but its well documented though Atos may have begun to tackle it recently, i've started to hear more and more of cases were atos has written off the medical as unreliable and disciplined the HCP following a complaint. Unfortunately this is often because the report is shown to be unreliable only in the face of other medical evidence.

Besides you would have to fool the doctors, specialists, hospital scans and examinations etc. Its a little known fact the medical is not actually all that important and that supporting evidence in fact can hold much more weight. So you would have to go through a lot of trouble to do it in the way you suggest, it would be convoluted and a lot of effort.

Mupette

geeze must be frosty and cold at night this troll has come out from under his bridge, anyone able to knit him a blankie

GlasweJen

Access to work help fund adaptations to the work place at a low cost to the employer (though my employer doesn't contribute to mine as its a small business), problem is no one seems to have heard of them even though they are the job centre!

cit_k

mr2gti wrote: »

Let me actually get this right... so you are happy to go to a test that's designed to...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_172012

... and do you actually try to score as many points as you can? And if you do - do you "put it on" or just do/show what you actually can do?


Also - if you appeal - surely you are kept on ESA Assessment rate until the Appeal is made/resolved?

The test is nothing like you imagine it will be like, they dont ask you the 'descriptors' (things you have to score) directly.

I find it often does not really matter what you say to the assessor, they will just make up any old fiction that they feel like making up anyway.

Apart from once, when the assessor gave me the completely wrong medical (yes they are that clueless), every single assessor has lied on the medical report.

Its got to the stage, where they have to be covertly (or in the last instance, overtly and officially) recorded to be able to prove that they did lie about the evidence.

edit to add: re appeal, as long as you attended the medical, and were not disallowed for non compliance of any kind (such as insisting on the day that you record the medical to prove what was said, they dont like that at all, or failing in the eyes of the assessor to do as they instruct for no good reason) then payment continues at assessment rate.

If you were disallowed for any of the above then you can appeal, but no payment is made.

Eventually, if you win, you get the backdated payments that you should have been paid all along (minus what you have already been paid).

The assessment rate is the same as JSA, so they are not gaining anything financially on appeal.

cit_k

mr2gti wrote: »

Mobility of arms is one isn't it, if you can only move them to your chin, it's 9 points, but only to your waist - 15. To make sure you get that extra £26 odd would/do people openly admit to making sure their arms dont move as much as they honestly can...?

Dont worry, the assessor asks lots of indirect questions designed (I use that term loosely) to find out a persons day to day activities etc, as well as visual observations during the exam, and even before it, as well as any medical evidence they have, and then forms their own opinion, which they enter into software which then makes weird logic jumps to deny or allow points.

Like saying if you have a pet gold fish, you dont score on some mental health points...