ESA, Cant work... yet...

cit_k

tomjonesrules wrote: »

Well Richard, I'm still confused. Neither you nor Louise have been able to point me to the many examples where people have just "dodged failing a WCA at ATOS". Please do share!

Remember, benefit bashers dont do facts, or back up what they say, its all just a rant..

mr2gti

No problem at all - good to see a solid reply too

Real shame for you that too - as there is certainly scope out in the home-based working sector for translators - but no surprise though which are the main languages required.

I like your last paragraph too - and agree to a high level in all except the very start - i'm not too sure on it being a "vast" majority, more just the majority (in my opinion of course).

It's a real shame that talent which you clearly possess cannot be extracted from you in a way you would benefit more from. How annoying it must be to have such knowledge and ability to not be able to use it in the capacity you both want to and once did.

jojo_2012_2

I'm in full-time employment.

My opinion is, yes if someone's coming in to complain of a sprained left wrist and saying they can't work and need to claim, I think it's pretty ridiculous when they can type etc, most workplaces have things you can do at least temporarily that involve reduced activity.

On the other hand living with a long term illness or injury comes with more diffuculties than an able bodied (for want of a better word) person can imagine. It's quite hard to do a job when doing every day tasks others take for granted can be so much more difficult.

As for this mention of people working from home doing jobs typing, please send us details of these lovely jobs I'm sure we'd all like to sit at home typing on a laptop all day. I know I would

mr2gti

jojo_2012 wrote: »

As for this mention of people working from home doing jobs typing, please send us details of these lovely jobs I'm sure we'd all like to sit at home typing on a laptop all day. I know I would

I sometimes think the exact same

But yes, completely see where you are coming from

pacmum

Unfortunately, the work from home typing jobs don't pay anything close to minimum wage ... it's piecework and you're self employed. In order to claim 30 hours WTC for a 'viable business', you'd probably end up working 120 hours. The 'earn £90 an hour' ads you see are codswallop!!

For 6 years I've juggling caring for 2 disabled children (no, not exaggerated 'observational' diagnoses, one has hydrocephalus and is missing some of his brain, the other is deaf) whilst working from home. I'm a programmer, competing with outsourcing in India and Eastern Europe, but at least I can earn minimum wage.

My husband claims CA for one child, I do my 16 hours for WTC ... between us we 'care' for over 150 hours a week. In April I'll have to work another 8 hours ... perhaps one of you daily hate readers can come and do my son's enema every day to give me that extra 8 hours?

ETA My pride is worth around £150 a week ... I'm happy to keep working and be £120 a week worse off, I draw the line at the £170 difference it'll be in April. My CA claim is in the post, when's Jezza on?

jojo_2012_2

mr2gti wrote: »

I sometimes think the exact same

But yes, completely see where you are coming from

saw this picture and thought of this thread

eskimo26

I 'm utterly blindsided that this appears to be genuine and not a troll. Are you aware at all why people have replied with such vitriol, is their anything in your initial post perhaps that may have put people on the defensive?

I might even apologise that's how flabbergasted i am but really your initial post was down to simple ignorance?

mr2gti wrote: »

As I clearly put... I'm not here for an argument in any way, I just want views....
...maybe some of those who have decided to try and kick off can explain why they see this as a valid response to my question?

Wow ok i'll break it down for you as a goodwill gesture since we got off on the wrong foot.

mr2gti wrote: »

I find it hard to understand that so many people are on this very forum - begging and pleading for help regarding work-related benefits such as ESA, JSA and alike...

That is very emotive language people that are desperate will beg and plead yes, you don't need to rub it in their faces their is already not much dignity to go around in these cases as it is.

It's not hard to understand at all. You see in all its wisdom our Government alongside the benefit reform has rather conveniently cut funding to the places that would have previously helped vulnerable people in this situation.The smaller places have shut down and bigger places like CAB are bursting at the seems coping with demand. These benefit changes are complex and some people going through them are very ill and/or vulnerable. They may also be living from one payment to the next so that a situation where this money stops brings their whole word crashing down.

Sick people are not going to understand how the new system works, and trust me you NEED to understand it. Ironically this means that the genuine sick are taken off benefits while the tiny minority of fakers who are not sick have the time to look into things such as descriptors and accordly increase their changes of success over a genuine claimant.

The stress to a person that is already ill is astronomical, if they are living from payment to payment they are going to suffer, their family will suffer, this is for some people literally their only means of finantial support. When your ill their is a huge degree of powerlessness, feeling trapped, indignity and guilt as it is.

This added stress has brought some sick people to the brink of suicide. Extreme cases, sure, but people have actually felt that their independence and quality of life may be impeded to the point were it is no longer worth living.

If you are sick with no income and a feeling of helplessness and being trapped then you are likely to be desperate enough to find yourself begging and pleading on a forum at the prospect of your benefits being cut. Especially when the Government has cut down the usual avenues.

It appears to me that you are finding it 'hard to understand' because you are completely removed from it.

...some of the threads I've seen are cram packed full of wisdom and loophole spotters and people genuinely in the know.

Which loopholes? What your seeing most likely are people who work in the DWP trying to explain to people how this complex benefit works. Trust me if you went in blind with no knowledge of descriptors etc. you wouldn't pass no matter what. That's how the test is built. Again these are hoops which a faker could jump through with ease but a sick person would not. Hence you see here people with various illnesses and/or their families seeking help and getting it. Nothing sinister is going on whatsoever. I guarantee you this forum is very hostile to anything that even half resembles fraud or inappropriate wiggling to get unentitled benefits.

I can't help but thing this is down to ignorance in your case.

I'm struggling though to know why people with the clear ability to type and post online - massive huge texts regarding a claim they are scared to lose - saying they "cannot work" yet they have an ability to type, at home, on a PC/Laptop/Tablet and don't think that they could do this, from home, as a job?

Seriously - am I missing the point here or what? You can do a job, from home that is basically the same as you ranting on a forum on how you've just "dodged failing a WCA at ATOS".

I'm really sorry if this is getting old but this is again i fear ignorance. Most chronic conditions rely on pacing ang grading to be able to do everyday things. In this context I can certainly type and i can do it well but in a work related environment with deadlines, set hours, serious expectations its not feasible.

The job market is the job market. The average person with long term sickness will have little to no work experience or they may not have current experience which makes them extremely unfavourable compared to someone who has recent experience.

They will likely have needs based on disability and reasonable adjustments may be required, this again makes them less desirable.

They're working output will be unreliable as it will stop and start constantly, based on their syptoms and sometimes for long periods.

So lets look at working from home typing. First they want to know relevent experience, somehow I doubt that 'I type excessively on internet forums' is very definitive, realistically speaking. Then their are the reasonable adjustments but most likely you are working freelance so will have to find the money to do that yourself. Remember this is no longer a casual forum you need to set yourself up to do able to produce work of a professional level. A comfortable bed or chair, and for some disability aids to make constant and long term typing a reality. Then their is the output, here at least you may be ok given that most work at home jobs allow you to pick your own hours.

Add to that the low volume of these jobs, they are very popular! In the current economical climate where employees can choose and pick from a host of well qualified and desperate applicants they will not go for the guy with health problems with little to no work experience.

Why is this happening? Why are so many people using some illnesses to mean they cannot do a thing?

Just interested in ALL opinions and not looking for a slagging match - but as a full time employee of a company, whilst having really bad asthma and just "getting on with it", so of the things I read on here are just plain ridiculous.

Really these people are loathed by the healthy and sick alike, especially the sick because they would give anything for the health to be able to work while these people choose not too.

What i always feel is absolutely crucial is to remember the fakers are a tiny minority compared to the genuine claimants. We must never lose sight of the fact that some of these benefits are needed by very sick and vulnerable people and to punish them is inexcusable. I hear this ALL the time, 'who cares if a few genuine claimants have to reapply or are denied as long as they catch the fakers.' These people have no idea of the heartache involved for these people. The benefit was made for them NOT for the tiny minority of fakers, so why should the fakers dictate the way the benefit changes to the detriment of the genuine?

Also with regards to those that qualify for a benefit but could also work or those that are living the 'benefit lifestyle'. I feel nothing but very sorry for them, because in my eyes this is a very sad life to choose to live. No aspirations, no prospects, little imagination and all the effort of jumping through all these hoops for a pittance. It doesn't sound like living to me, and if they qualify for the benefit and choose it over work they must have very sad unfulfilled lives. Again however i would say don't punish the vulnerable.

That's my time pretty much over for this. I would say you appear to lead a priviledged life and that may have led to some of your opinions and questions having had no contact, as far as i can tell, with the very benefits you were keen to discuss. I hope my post in some way helped.

I have contemplated my own business but i imagine it to be an endeavour beyond my current level of sickness despite the huge problems it solves for people that are ill. (picking your own hours etc.)

At some point i hope to return to discuss the changes i feel might help people in my situation and how genuine sick people desperate to work can't in the current system.

Oh and no body gloats about passing a medical, these are sick and worried people who are extremely relieved to pass medicals when they may have heard it was next to impossible. Or more likely people that are celebrating a tribunal decision to overturn a flawed decision that has kept themselves and their familes under a cloud of uncertainty sometimes for up to a year. Also people don't like being told to their faces they are lying and are not sick when said sickness has destroyed their lives, so they may celebrate passing a medical or a successful tribunal as vindication of this. People post to give hope to others in a similarly dire predicament not to gloat.

All the best and apologies for thinking you were a troll.

DomRavioli

Let me shed a little light on the OP's head.

I am 26, disabled both physically and mentally (i had been on the transplant list due to a hereditary condition), and spent almost 2 years on benefits whilst getting life preserving treatment for some rather indepth medical conditions.

I now work full time, after being told for many jobs that they could not afford to make the 'reasonable adjustments' that I required to be able to go back to work.

The sheer hell of going through being prodded and poked by an unqualified person at these assessments is nothing more than degrading at best! I was given a Health Care Assistant, with no prior knowledge of my condition (She didn't even know what it was!) and was kept waiting for 3 hours whilst someone found a Grays to look it up. I took no pride in not being able to work, something I had done for almost 7 years previously; thankfully due to my previous roles I was able to volunteer for 2 hours a week with a lot of support.

Most people who claim benefits relating to health, especially those who are granted a long term health benefit with a high rate of DLA, are truly sick. You will always get some silly person who breaks the rules, but you will get that in ANY situation, not just with regards to monetary benefits (its why we have jails and police and courts!) I was extremely lucky to be able to find my job within national government who have kindly helped with adjustments to enable me to return to work, unfortunately I know of many who are in a similar situation to me who have some capacity to work, but there are very few employers who are able and willing to pay sometimes thousands of pounds for these reasonable adjustments.

I do hope that one day you will realise that your views are not only coloured, but derogatory towards those who truly need assistance, and are desperate to work. For most of these innocent people, the struggles they face can be rather difficult without being berated by someone who has no humility.

DomRavioli

mr2gti wrote: »

Clearly - i'm going to get nowhere in this, a couple of people have answered respectfully, but it appears others don't have the ability.

I wish all those well who have a GENUINE reason not to work... if you cannot work in anyway then I hope you are covered by the benefits/handouts on offer.

But those of you who "play" on your issues, those of you who go to a WCA with the intent of scoring as high as possible, those of you who miraculously require walking aids and alike after coming out from behind the curtain of your front door, those of you who actually have pride in the money given by the government and mainly, those of you who are just plain BONE IDLE - I really hope you are happy in seeing this nation flushed down the pan thanks to the lack of money in it.

Simply put...

"Genuine = I wish you all the very best. Fakers = I wish you the absolute opposite".

Just keep your whinging to yourself. Better still, get yourself a therapist, or become an MP...you spout enough tish to become a really good one.

mr2gti

I need no therapist... or maybe I do - I'll ask the wizard on my shoulder!