MSE News: Orange to raise monthly mobile costs

thefutureisntorange

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Want to start three others for the other networks who have done the same thing? :idea:

What other networks have done the same thing?

I know Vodafone rounded up monthly bills to the nearest 50p, but who else?

Guys_Dad

thefutureisntorange wrote: »

What other networks have done the same thing?

I know Vodafone rounded up monthly bills to the nearest 50p, but who else?

I believe 3 did it and other threads on here inform that Virgin did as well.

premierfella

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Want to start three others for the other networks who have done the same thing? :idea:

Not really, as I'm not a customer of any of the others that have been named as having pulled a similar trick so have no reason to create threads for them.

Orange is by far the largest network to have pulled this, which makes it far more significant and probably explains why this thread is somewhat larger than any that might have existed for other networks. Orange's action as one of the Big Four networks firmly sets the line in the gutter which the other three networks (related TMobile, O2 and Vodafone*) could follow.

* as indicated Vodafone's recent line rental increases were a little different in that they were presented as a one-off rounding exercise whereas Orange, by pinning its change to inflation, is giving a clear indicator that this may be an annual exercise for them.

DUTR

premierfella wrote: »

Not really, as I'm not a customer of any of the others that have been named as having pulled a similar trick so have no reason to create threads for them.

Orange is by far the largest network to have pulled this, which makes it far more significant and probably explains why this thread is somewhat larger than any that might have existed for other networks. Orange's action as one of the Big Four networks firmly sets the line in the gutter which the other three networks (related TMobile, O2 and Vodafone*) could follow.

* as indicated Vodafone's recent line rental increases were a little different in that they were presented as a one-off rounding exercise whereas Orange, by pinning its change to inflation, is giving a clear indicator that this may be an annual exercise for them.

Which can equate to much more than a 4-5% price increase depending on calling patterns.

premierfella

DUTR wrote: »

Which can equate to much more than a 4-5% price increase depending on calling patterns.

Could, but didn't in the Vodafone case (largest increase in line rental was less than 3% I believe). But different as rounding would only happen when the VAT rate changes? Fair point though.

Guys_Dad

premierfella wrote: »

Could, but didn't in the Vodafone case (largest increase in line rental was less than 3% I believe). But different as rounding would only happen when the VAT rate changes? Fair point though.

Well I am with both Orange and Voda so been hit twice, albeit with pretty minor increases.

But if you write "a warning to potential Orange customers that the line rental price they see at sign-up may not be the price they pay for the length of the contract.", then it doesn't matter what increases are , the statement stands true for the others who raised their rates and the outcry against Orange -v- Vodafone is quite out of line.

flyingben

Guys_Dad wrote: »

A fine, reasoned theoretical argument. No doubt well worth debating in genial surroundings.

However, Which?, OFCOM and even MSE appear to say that Orange are acting legally.

So, until this is challenged successfully in court, or the arbitrator comes down against them, they appear to be able to make the increases in the real world.

Thanks. The genial surroundings I had in mind were arbitration / Court. That is the real world in this context; all the rest is reflection.

Its a shame the Court doesn't lean towards class actions. This subject cries out for a test case. No claim would be heard on its own (disproportionate costs), but many such claims heard together would be justified.

Guys_Dad

flyingben wrote: »

Thanks. The genial surroundings I had in mind were arbitration / Court. That is the real world in this context; all the rest is reflection.

Its a shame the Court doesn't lean towards class actions. This subject cries out for a test case. No claim would be heard on its own (disproportionate costs), but many such claims heard together would be justified.

I would go along with that. My point really was that, so far, the regulator has refused to condemn Orange or say they broke the Ofcom regs, but individuals should pursue their own action.

We yet have to see if the arbitrator will handle individual cases - there seems to be conflicting evidence as to whether they will or not.

No one has, as yet, stepped up and said that they are taking Orange to court, so much of the argument now seems to be either based upon
(a) individual (amateur) interpretation of how they think the regulations should be applied
(b) theoretical steps that could be followed - if only someone was brave/rich enough to do it
(c) revenge against Orange when the contract ends. My argument here is that all of the networks have similar clauses and 3 of them have already enacted them, so I can't quite see the point, particularly if at contract renewal time, Orange had the best deal. Like in the Godfather, it's business, not personal and this is a money saving site.

premierfella

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Well I am with both Orange and Voda so been hit twice, albeit with pretty minor increases.

But if you write "a warning to potential Orange customers that the line rental price they see at sign-up may not be the price they pay for the length of the contract.", then it doesn't matter what increases are , the statement stands true for the others who raised their rates and the outcry against Orange -v- Vodafone is quite out of line.

I understand the point you are making, but you won't be surprised that I don't accept that the comment you quote is quite out of line. Orange is the first of the Big Four to implement a mid term price increase with a justification that indicates it is likely to be a regular occurence in future. Vodafone's increase was a one-off which would only be repeated again for the same reason if the VAT rate changes. 3 and Virgin are minnows compared to the Big Four networks - Orange's move, I would suggest, is the defining one for the pay monthly market in the UK.

I'm happy to concede that if/when O2 or Vodafone follow the lead, the warning would then extend to all pay monthly customers.

I am of the view that if the regulator is happy to allow networks to raise line rental prices during the fixed term of a pay monthly mobile contract, the very least they should be doing is discussing with the networks and other interested parties how pay monthly line rental prices are presented. Where line rental prices are quoted, there should be a clear indication to the consumer (on the same page at the very least) that the line rental price is variable - the consumer should not have to read a term buried in the small print to find this out.

Orange presented the tariffs with the line rental cost in the tariff name. Raising the line rental price mid-term is (in my opinion) a questionable practice given this. Businesses that have no qualms in acting in this way don't deserve my business and don't get my repeat custom. I doubt that I am the only Orange customer that will take this view when the minimum term expires and if 3 and Virgin have done the same, their customers should also consider whether they have been fairly treated by their network.

Doc_N

premierfella wrote: »

.......I doubt that I am the only Orange customer that will take this view when the minimum term expires......

You aren't - not by along chalk! I spoke to Orange today (they called back as the next stage of dealing with a formal complaint) and they tell me they're swamped with complaints - so many that they're struggling to handle them all.

The comment was made (and not by me) that the people at the top are beginning to regret their decision - damaged goodwill far outweighing the additional income. It costs a lot of money to get a new customer, and even more if you've got a damaged brand on your hands.