Ooooh, What happened to the KFC thread?

System

The reason is Brit and scot are not used in a derogatory manner. Currently no Brit or Scott gets offended by being called that. However the word 'jap' and the Pakistani one (I won't say the word) are used as a derogatory term and as such are offensive by people from that country.

Azari

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

I'd personally ask the opinion of a few Japanese first before making that statement.

Well, you can do it your way.

My understanding of racism is that it something that comes from the person being racist so unless the Japanese you select are mind readers then I'd say you have it back to front.

More to the point would be to ask people who use the abbreviation 'Japs' whether they are using the term in order to be offensive.

Also, to quote a previous posting of yours:

"I said that as a matter of courtesy I would generally tend to use the full name of a race (or adjective derived from it) if someone of that race were present.

You really are the sort of person who sets back the cause of anti-racism by being an obnoxious prat who insists on ramming his own definitions down everyone else's throat."

Isn't that exactly what you are doing here?

No, rather the reverse.

I have never made the slightest suggestion that anyone should use the term 'Japs' if they are uncomfortable with it. I am adopting a 'live and let live' approach.

It's goatbreath who is using his personal definition to brand other people racist because they will not knuckle down and behave as he thinks they should.

Azari

goater78 wrote: »

The reason is Brit and scot are not used in a derogatory manner. Currently no Brit or Scott gets offended by being called that. However the word 'jap' and the Pakistani one (I won't say the word) are used as a derogatory term and as such are offensive by people from that country.

Ah, I see.

When you use the term 'jap' you are being offensive and so you project that mindset onto others.

Newsflash: When most people use the term 'Japs' they are simply using an abbreviation for 'Japanese'.

System

Azari wrote: »

Ah, I see.

When you use the term 'jap' you are being offensive and so you project that mindset onto others.

Newsflash: When most people use the term 'Japs' they are simply using an abbreviation for 'Japanese'.

Yes you've done me again I am obviously a racist as I refuse to call Japanese people by a racist term. I must also be a racist as I won't abuse people from Pakistan by another racist term..... People like you really are a disgrace in the 21st century you need to stop being such an ignorant racist. I think from now on we should both block each other. I hate racists and you obviously are pro racist so perhaps we should stop engaging?

Shevchenko01

Azari wrote: »

Well, you can do it your way.
My understanding of racism is that it something that comes from the person being racist so unless the Japanese you select are mind readers then I'd say you have it back to front.

Or perceived to be racist. For example, an assault is investigated as racially motivated if the assaulted believes it was so.

Azari wrote: »

I have never made the slightest suggestion that anyone should use the term 'Japs' if they are uncomfortable with it. I am adopting a 'live and let live' approach.

It really doesn't appear that way, although I do kind of see what you’re saying in that you use the word “Jap” as a shortened version of “Japanese” and that’s all, however:

1. I know a couple of people who do find it offensive, namely the Japanese proprietors of my local sushi bar;
2. There are precedents for simply shortened versions of full names to be offensive. If I said I was only using P**i word simply as a shortened version of Pakistani and didn't mean any offence by it, would that make it okay? Please, answer this...it’s not rhetorical.

But I also feel that you are trying...no, not trying...you are telling others what is right/wrong as you did in my previous post.



By all means believe what you want and do/say what you want but:

1. Be prepared to face the consequences of your action
2. Allow all others to do the same, please, and determine what is right/wrong for them.

Leif

Azari wrote: »

Ah, I see.

When you use the term 'jap' you are being offensive and so you project that mindset onto others.

Newsflash: When most people use the term 'Japs' they are simply using an abbreviation for 'Japanese'.

My comment is a direct reply to you but more an intrusion into the thread as a whole. I do not know if the term Jap is offensive, but I don't think I use the term on the grounds that it might be. Frog is accepted, as is Rosbif.

When I first went to Canada, I found the term Brit offensive, mainly because I define myself as English. Unfortunately to French Canadians an 'Anglais' is an English Canadian, which I found confusing, and one called me 'le faux anglais' because I tried to speak French. To be honest I could cope with being called a Brit, or a Limey, as they were more teasing than mean. But I could not cope with the continual sterotyping, mainly by the French Canadians. I came from a country with dreadful food, continually shrouded in mist, where the people were phlegmatic, and Sherlock Holmes was still alive. After a while it becomes racist to be continually told by people who have never been to England that the food is awful. In fact Montreal has nothing to speak of when it comes to cuisine, and is no match for London.

As for Paki, I never understood why it was rude, as it is no different to Brit. But, Anglo-Pakistanis agree that it is racist, probably because it is used in the context of abuse, so I do not use the term as I do not wish to offend people. I still think they should 'defuse' the term by using it among themselves, making it non racist, but that is for them to decide.

As for being called whitey, it would not bother me. I've had mild teasing from Anglo Asians in Luton, but they are in my experience a pleasant lot, much nicer than some of the violent whites there. I always feel safe in Asian areas, but not in poor white areas.

But this country has gone too far in protecting ethnic minorities. When I was the victim of persecution over a year by 'children', the police did nothing until I used a camera to photograph the culprits, and I was assaulted. Even then the person who assaulted me was not charged. But, the local police web site only allows me to report a crime if it is a race crime, or a homophopic crime. This serves only to increase divisions, not heal them. And recently I worked with someone who publicly called me a racist for saying that many Indian contractors I worked with lacked initiative. (I am told the agencies train them to be obedient. One friend said he agreed with me, but you can't say that today.) And yet he told me that he hated Catholics and Americans! It seems that to some on the left certain Ethnic groups are saints, whilst white middle class American males, for example, are the devil in disguise. Bigotry is fine, as long as you choose the right hate group. In my view his bigotry was just as vile as that of two racists I once worked with (who incidentally are fundamentalist Christians).

I was recently at a meal with some friends. One, an Anglo Asian born in East Africa, said that Britain has gone too far in its right on political correctness. I suspect some right on liberal lefties use anti-racism as a means to power and control.

Azari

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

Or perceived to be racist. For example, an assault is investigated as racially motivated if the assaulted believes it was so.

Or not.

It rather depends on how the police view the incident.

I know a couple of people who do find it offensive, namely the Japanese proprietors of my local sushi bar;

And I know a couple of black people who dislike being called back. I know a lot more who detest being called coloured.

You can't just allow a small selection of people to decide these things.

What do we do if goatbreath takes it into his head the 'Scot' is racist and you provide anecdotal evidence that there a a couple of Scots who think the same?

What about 'Brit'?

You may think that's absurd but that's what people are doing when they decide that they are going to label a perfectly harmless word 'racist' without good cause.

There are precedents for simply shortened versions of full names to be offensive. If I said I was only using P**i word simply as a shortened version of Pakistani and didn't mean any offence by it, would that make it okay? Please, answer this...it’s not rhetorical.

Words of this type tend to become verboten because their use is associated with real, overt, racist behaviour. Both 'ni**er' and 'paki' were once perfectly acceptable words. It is only their protracted association with racism that has made the unacceptable.

But I also feel that you are trying...no, not trying...you are telling others what is right/wrong as you did in my previous post.

I'm telling people that it's not for you and goatbreath to dictate acceptable word usage. I'm most emphatically not telling people which word they should use.

Just don't get caught up in the agenda of the sort of people who will label any word racist with no evidence that it has been used in this way to any significant extent.

If you can provide evidence that there have been groups of people who go out 'jap-bashing' or that there are calls from the BNP to expel all the 'japs' from the country, I might start to think you had a point.

Allow all others to do the same, please, and determine what is right/wrong for them.

LOL, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Azari

goater78 wrote: »

Yes you've done me again I am obviously a racist as I refuse to call Japanese people by a racist term. I must also be a racist as I won't abuse people from Pakistan by another racist term..... People like you really are a disgrace in the 21st century you need to stop being such an ignorant racist. I think from now on we should both block each other. I hate racists and you obviously are pro racist so perhaps we should stop engaging?

Interesting rant.

Your sole grounds for calling me racist is that I will not bow to your dictat that the the word 'jap' is racist in this country.

That is for the simple reason that there is no real evidence that it has been used in a racist manner to any greater extent than xenophobes use words such as 'yank', 'scot', aussie' or 'canuk'.

It's just an idea that you have got into your little mind supported, perhaps, by a couple of anecdotes about (possibly over sensitive) Japanese who dislike the word.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Azari wrote: »

Interesting rant.

Your sole grounds for calling me racist is that I will not bow to your dictat that the the word 'jap' is racist in this country.

That is for the simple reason that there is no real evidence that it has been used in a racist manner to any greater extent than xenophobes use words such as 'yank', 'scot', aussie' or 'canuk'.

It's just an idea that you have got into your little mind supported, perhaps, by a couple of anecdotes about (possibly over sensitive) Japanese who dislike the word.

As an impartial bystander in this debate, I feel obliged to point out to you that you're making an utter fool of yourself. How many times do you have to have it pointed out to you that many, if not all, Japanese people find being called 'Japs' dismissive and offensive before you accept that is the case?

You seem to think, something like Humpty Dumpty, that when you use a word all that matters is what you want it to mean. This is so self-evidently nonsense that there's no real point in arguing against it. The logical extension is that if you decide calling someone anything is perfectly fine, suddenly any word can be rendered inoffensive. This may have some credence when speaking of dealings between friends, but obviously not when you're talking to strangers, and not when you're talking in a medium where strangers can overhear you.

Azari

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

As an impartial bystander in this debate, I feel obliged to point out to you that you're making an utter fool of yourself.

Sorry, you are the one who is making an absolute fool of himself.

Not least because you start off with "As an impartial bystander" and then come down very firmly as holding an extreme view - that being that a couple of twerps on a forum who claim to know a couple of Japanese who they say find the term offensive should be allowed to dictate what is and what is not a racist term.

You guys need to do better.

Show some evidence that the term 'Jap' is racist in this country.