am fuming, sorry its a rant

System

mumps wrote: »

I agree with your first point, the guy might have stopped as he thought he was stopping a fight and been annoyed when he realised he had wasted his time, still does not give him the right to push the child about. What would you say if the child had fallen when pushed and fractured his skull? Still think parents would be grateful?

Re it not being much of an assault, well exactly why I didn't suggest it would be a Section 18 or Section 20. Common assault or Section 47, if he got prosecuted for assaulting an 11 year old it won't look good on a CRB and would seriously limit future employment. Might not bother him depending on his career choices.

What would you say if the child had fallen while being punched by his friend and fractured his skull? Would that be ok...of course not but that would not have been intentional, the man probably didn't 'intend' to hurt either.

claire16c

meritaten wrote: »

But, assuming ALL children lie - smacks of the denial of childrens evidence of child molestation by catholic priests. Their PARENTS assumed the kids lied! they didnt, and how many kids have been damaged by this?
How many parents have claimed kids lie when they say they have been molested? the police used to assume that too - but they dont now. Why? because kids dont usually lie about important matters - any more than adults do.
To say ALL kids lie is stupid - not all kids lie! just as not all adults lie! some PEOPLE are honest and trustworthy - they are as kids and they are as adults.

Ive never known anyone in my life who hasnt told lie - whether its a tiny white one or a huge one, at some point in their life.

Learning to lie is a part of a childs development. Id be worried if a child had literally never lied EVER.

Ive looked after lots of kids and most of the younger ones tell small fibs - often with a huge grin on their face at the same time - ALL the time. Its normally over tiny things about whether or not they did something i.e if I ask them have they just flushed the toilet - theyll say yes because they cant be bothered to do it. I just give them a look that shows I dont beleive them, and they go back and do it.

And yes children have been known to lie about things as serious as being molested. That doesnt mean every child who says they have been molested is a liar!!

POPPYOSCAR

It might not be a question of the boys telling lies but more of perhaps making the incident more than it was? Were there any other people at the bus stop who saw what happened?(My own children are very good at embellishing things a little at times!!)

Without an independent witness I would not imagine the police will take any action anyway, unless this man has a history of doing this sort of thing.

aliasojo

claire16c wrote: »

Ive never known anyone in my life who hasnt told lie - whether its a tiny white one or a huge one, at some point in their life.

Completely OT I realise, but some kids on the Autistic Spectrum are very 'literal' and don't 'get' the concept of lying.

I know that's not the case here, just responding to your statement above.

Oldernotwiser

aliasojo wrote: »

I don't think that is the case ONW.

I don't think the man's intervention is the issue per se, I think it's the way in which he intervened that has raised concern. His reaction showed the same kind of behaviour as the lads imo.

I agree that the man may have overreacted a bit but suggesting that he assaulted the child is just ridiculous.

MessyMare

Also remember that the police may not respond as expected. I was waiting at the bus stop once when I was in year 9 (so about 13) and I was just balancing my bag briefly on the handrail to get my bus pass out. An old lady came out of the shop and instead of saying 'excuse me', she hit me. Mum told the police, as this old lady had also pushed her (mum has mobility probs and takes stairs very slowly and needs the handrail; this lady had been thundering down the steps behind her and started pushing her, she also tried to shut a car door on mum) and who gets the telling off? Me.

princeofpounds

I'm honestly not sure many people would simply run up and their first reaction would be to get one of the lads and push up against the wall/shelter (can't remember which it was now) whilst telling him he was going to 'get' him.

This 'get him' quote is also one of the things that makes me think there is more to this story. Get him for what? Normally you would say that to someone who had slighted you somehow. And frankly, if he had him pinned up against a bus shelter he already HAD him so it doesn't make sense on two levels.

And as for claims that it is a section xyz assault - perhaps. But equally pushing someone up against a wall can just be a method of restraint, which is perfectly allowable. Depends how it was done. There's pushing and shoving. Anyone who has managed to physically separate people fighting without a pushing is a Jesus-like miracle worker or some kind of kung fu master.

I don't really want to sounds like I'm making lots of excuses for the guy. He may well be an aggressive fruitloop. But the story so far is riddled with more holes than a swiss cheese.

mirrorimage0

the police have been very encouraging for my son to report this. it will be reported but have been told not to rush in to do so as it wont be dealt with until monday anyway.

im hoping it was just the man thinking he was doing good and stopping something going on but on the other hand if it wasnt and he went on to to do something else to other children or my child again then i would never forgive myself. im sure the police will do thier job and act accordingly ,

remember this is a 50/60 yr old man pushing a child at the end of the day, with threatening behaviour.


how is the story riddled with holes?

the boys were at the bus stop hitting each other on the arms, man in van stops, shouts a few things at them and pushes my son up at the bus stop.

madnessandmayhem

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Any parent with any sense knows that most children lie at least part of the time.

"My child, right or wrong" is the sort of attitude that leads to parents refusing to back up schools in matters of discipline and encourages children and young adults to believe that they can do what they like and get away with it.

I didn't say children never lie-mine certainly do-white lies, but i can tell when they are! Any normal person with any sense would know that not everything that comes out of a childs mouth is a lie and that adults can, suprise suprise lie as well.
i didn't mean to make it sound as if i would always feel my child was in the right and never did wrong-My point was I would be on my childs side until I had information to prove otherwise-I WOULD back up the school in regards to discipline-usually what an 8yr old thinks is fair punishment is very different from an adults and they usually feel hard done by, but that is a world away from a child going to a parent and saying a stranger had pushed them and been agressive.
My children do not feel they can get away with what they like-what is not believeing them and thinking they are telling lies, therefore letting an adult get away with behaving the way the man did to the op's son going to teach them??

DUTR

mirrorimage0 wrote: »

the police have been very encouraging for my son to report this. it will be reported but have been told not to rush in to do so as it wont be dealt with until monday anyway.

im hoping it was just the man thinking he was doing good and stopping something going on but on the other hand if it wasnt and he went on to to do something else to other children or my child again then i would never forgive myself. im sure the police will do thier job and act accordingly ,

remember this is a 50/60 yr old man pushing a child at the end of the day, with threatening behaviour.



how is the story riddled with holes?

the boys were at the bus stop hitting each other on the arms, man in van stops, shouts a few things at them and pushes my son up at the bus stop.

The bit in green is all good, the bit highlighted is the sensationalism that often gets people not interested in the story, let's just wait for the facts and investigation, after all a 50/60 yr old is from a different generation, some of the younger crowd use knives and guns :eek: