Driving licence query

KTM_Gordo

I've just been reminded why I seldom frequent these forums.

The original poster asked a question, which was answered correctly. Case closed.

Trebor16

Rover_Driver wrote: »

It's the other way round, the offence is complete if the licence is not produced at the time of requirement.

That offence is only 'cancelled' (for want of a better word) if the licence is produced at a Police Station within 7 days.

s. 164 (8) R.T.A. 1988
"In proceedings against any person for the offence of failing to produce a licence and its counterpart it shall be a defence for him to show that—
(a)within seven days after the production of his licence and its counterpart was required he produced them in person at a police station that was specified by him at the time their production was required'

In post 49 you said this:-

"If you had produced it within 7 days, you would not be prosecuted for failing to produce it when required, although you had committed that offence. "

Now you are saying that the offence is "cancelled" if the licence is produced within the 7 day period.

If there is a statutory defence, and you have complied with that defence, then you have not committed an offence.

You cannot have a situation where it is not a legal requirement to carry a driving licence when you drive (as is the case in the UK) but as soon as you are required to produce your licence by a police officer you are immediately committing an offence if you don't have your licence with you and can't produce it.

A police officer in such circumstances would not point out the offence of failing to produce your licence and caution you at that moment in time. They would require you to produce your licence and issue a HORT/1.

The offence is only complete when there has been no production of the licence within the 7 days.

Rover_Driver

That is why I said (for want of a better word). Any action for not producing your licence at the time would usually be cancelled or discontinued if you had complied with s.164 (8).

You cannot have a situation where it is not a legal requirement to carry a driving licence when you drive (as is the case in the UK) but as soon as you are required to produce your licence by a police officer you are immediately committing an offence if you don't have your licence with you and can't produce it.

That is the reason for s.164 (8).


s.164 (6) creates the offence of not producing your licence at the time, subject to s.164 (8).

If you fail to produce your licence at the time and comply with s.164(8) and are prosecuted, at any subsequent court trial, (which would be for not producing it 'at the time'), you could use s.164(8) in your defence, but only in your defence - it does not automatically mean that an offence under s.164 (6) had not been committed, that would be for the court to decide.

s.164 (8) only applies if the licence is produced at a Police Station, if it isn't, there is no 7 day allowance. The wording of s.164 (8) is specific in that it only introduces a defence that can be used if complied with, it does not introduce a 7 day period for the offence of failing to produce, that is still 'at the time'.

The_Turner

Trebor is doing well two full days on the sauce.

The_Turner

Trebor16 wrote: »

If there is a statutory defence, and you have complied with that defence, then you have not committed an offence.

There's a statutory defene to putting Halfords window in and taking a fire extinguisher. Without out it, it's called burgulary. So you can play on words all you like. I stand by what I said as being correct.

The_Turner

Trebor16 wrote: »

A police officer in such circumstances would not point out the offence of failing to produce your licence and caution you at that moment in time.

They should do.

Trebor16

The_Turner wrote: »

There's a statutory defene to putting Halfords window in and taking a fire extinguisher. Without out it, it's called burgulary. So you can play on words all you like. I stand by what I said as being correct.

You accuse me of being on the sauce and then you write that???:D:D

Trebor16

The_Turner wrote: »

They should do.

No they shouldn't as the offence is not complete at that moment in time.

Rover_Driver

Trebor16 wrote: »

No they shouldn't as the offence is not complete at that moment in time.

The offence is complete if the person does not produce their licence at the time of the requirement.

Trebor16

Rover_Driver wrote: »

That is why I said (for want of a better word). Any action for not producing your licence at the time would usually be cancelled or discontinued if you had complied with s.164 (8).

You cannot have a situation where it is not a legal requirement to carry a driving licence when you drive (as is the case in the UK) but as soon as you are required to produce your licence by a police officer you are immediately committing an offence if you don't have your licence with you and can't produce it.

That is the reason for s.164 (8).


s.164 (6) creates the offence of not producing your licence at the time, subject to s.164 (8).

If you fail to produce your licence at the time and comply with s.164(8) and are prosecuted, at any subsequent court trial, (which would be for not producing it 'at the time'), you could use s.164(8) in your defence, but only in your defence - it does not automatically mean that an offence under s.164 (6) had not been committed, that would be for the court to decide.

s.164 (8) only applies if the licence is produced at a Police Station, if it isn't, there is no 7 day allowance. The wording of s.164 (8) is specific in that it only introduces a defence that can be used if complied with, it does not introduce a 7 day period for the offence of failing to produce, that is still 'at the time'.

Ultimately if a person produces their licence within the period specified at a police station they have not committed an offence. If they don't produce their licence at a police station then they commit an offence.

That's why you see in 164(6) "subject to subsections (7) to (8A) below"

In the unlikely event of a person being prosecuted for non production of their licence, but they had taken it to a police station within the 7 days and produced it, they would be found not guilty so therefore have not committed an offence.