water summons and trust fund

rhoda_baker

Nearly forgot, will it go on Ned's credit file for 6 years? if so surely that would be wrong?

mart.vader

Hi Rhoda,

Wait for the mediation. The mediator is supposed to be unbiased.

Explain that the monthly payments have continued, are continuing, and will continue for the foreseeable future, and (at least) the six months period that the AW trust require, when any arrears will be paid off by the AW trust.

In my opinion, as a non-lawyer, AW's solicitors and court costs, are their own. Even if the matter were to progress to court (after or instead of going to mediation, if mediation fails) AW would not be able to recover their costs in the small claims court (unless, in the opinion of the court, not AW, Ned has behaved unreasonably) and it would be up to AW to prove that in court, and this will be difficult.

Good Luck !

rhoda_baker

update....

The mediation date has been changed, because there are so many cases going through, and AW are often 'not available' to take part in mediation......

it will be next thursday, I think he said. Will update when I know. He does not want to pay AW solicitors fees and costs, I think though that because of this AW will then be awkward......and perhaps then withdraw their trust fund ageement...? I have printed off your last posting to show him, mart, thanks for that advice., he will take it.

Oh and another thing, the person from the mediation service who has been dealing with it and knows the ins and outs, is now not going to be the person dealing with it, therefore he requested the details of who will be dealing with it so that he too can get the covering letter, (which was sent to the court manager, and the mediator who has been corresponding most recently.) The correspondence said 'you may have to pay a hearing fee',( so much for 'the free mediation service'.....) ' if the case settles the fee can be refunded'...and you will need a EX50 county court fees form'. (Not included in the correspondence.....)

mart.vader

Hi Rhoda,

If AW are "not available" to take part in the mediation, then there can be no mediation, and it will just have to wait until AW can find time to take part.

I think you, or Ned, just need make sure that they understand, he has been paying, is currently paying and will continue to pay. If AW thought it was worth paying solicitors fees, to harass such a helpful customer, then that is their business, (and up to them to pay for it).

Possibly AW can try to be awkward, if Ned doesn't pay their solicitors fees and costs, but I don't think AW can withdraw their trust fund agreement, merely because of this. They would look stupid.

OK, it's a nuisance that the mediator will have changed, but I think that's "par for the course."

The correspondence says "you may have to pay a hearing fee" I'm not sure, but I would hope the fee is not for the mediation, I hope it's only that, if the mediation fails, and a court hearing is necessary.

Good Luck for next Thursday, or whenever !

rhoda_baker

Well the mediation has taken place, I popped to his, in the end ...anyway that was fine as he had everything he thought he would need to hand.

The mediation girl was quite nice and up beat, telling him after her initial call to make sure he was ready, (this was the second call) that it was 'fantastic result' and AW had agreed that, Ned could carry on paying his installments,:doh: and that he did not need to pay the new bill and the old bill installments side by side - just one higher rate payment would suffice...(which contradicts next paragraph)

Now this is the situation, last week he got a new bill outlining that from 2011 - 2012 he would owe for the NEW years bill £500 or there abouts...THE LITIGATION DEPT OF ANGLIAN WATER HAD IN WRITING PREVIOUSLY SAID THAT "THE NEW BILL WAS AN ENTIRELY DIFERENT ISSUE TO THE OUSTANDING AMOUNT IN QUESTION NAMELY, AND THE AMOUNT WOULD NEED TO BE PAID SEPARATELY" meaning that it would not be added to his current bill and after the 6 month of his payments everything remaining would be then paid by AW trust, therefore Ned would have to pay his current installments for year 2010-2011, and then at the same time he would also have to pay installments off his new bill.

NB It would mean that the amount outstanding after 6 months on the current bill (not the new) is much higher than the amount for the NEW bill.

However Anglian Water to date have sent no paying in booklet for his new bill - just added the new to the current and said it was PAYABLE WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT. He had to call and request a new paying in book which still is not here...obviously he is thinking if he misses any installments (due to no book being sent to enable payment) then the trust will not pay remaining after 6 month as is promised!

Ok so then if you can follow that, the mediator then mentioned the new bill, (which AW had said was a separate issue) and said AW have decided that Ned has permission to pay installments but not both the bills at once, just the new one..which is approx £500..after he has paid 6 monthly installments of £49 (a new higher monthly sum, divided by 12 installments) (apparently from the date he signs the agreement not from the date the AW trust gave him provisional acceptance to get the trust money award) so that would be £294 he'd pay, then the remaining £206 paid by trust fund.

The confusing thing is that the mediator thought that Ned would only have to pay the 6 month of installments at the sum of £49 per month (off the new bill) then AW trust would pay all remaining :- the remaining old bill and the remaining new and that would be it, ie that it includes both bills.

I think however that AW have changed tack halfway through realising that they can pay less via the trust fund if they now apply their 'agreement' to the NEW bill, a much lower amount, and not the OLD (which is the issue,) - as after 6 months the remaining balance on that one is far higher...

Maybe I am being cynical....I think we will know the truth when the papers arrive for Ned to sign, I would imagine it will outline the exact conditions for him to sign his name to? Then their intentions would be clear.

Also the mediator said that AW solictors costs were added to the debt!!! (I'm speechless) then with a cheery "that's all fine then a great result", she finished the call, it took all of five minutes in total.

A great result. I'm not so sure. He also does not want to pay AW solicitors costs.

Seems to me that it was already decided, the fact that he'd continued paying and his circumstance was totally ignored., as was AW terrible attitude to it.

I may be pleasantly suprised. Somehow I expect that this is not all going to go swimmingly....

mart.vader

Hi Rhoda,

I won't pretend that I understand all of your post, but, is the current situation, that AW and the mediator believe has been agreed, is that Ned will pay (1) the current bill and arrears (if any) and at the same time, also pay (2) "next years" bill in advance, and in addition, he will pay (3) AW's solicitors costs?

I doubt that they can charge "in advance" i.e. before the water has been used. Maybe the OFT are the best organisation to ask about this (You won't get a reply for months though)

When the mediator said that AW solictors costs are to be added to the debt, what did you or Ned say? Did you or Ned agree? Ned didn't hire the solicitors, nor were they necessary, so why should he pay?

As I said previously, the mediator is supposed to be impartial, and I don't think it is for her to say, that, or to assume that Ned agrees to it, particularly if Ned has not expressly said that he agrees.

The question is: What can you do about this?

The only thing I can suggest is that you write to the mediator (probably via the court) and say that Ned did not agree to pay this bill and the next bill at the same time, nor did he agree to pay AW's solicitors costs. Would Ned be able to pay both bills at once? From what you say, I doubt it.

Try to work what you said here into the letter:

"The confusing thing is that the mediator thought that Ned would only have to pay the 6 month of installments at the sum of £49 per month (off the new bill) then AW trust would pay all remaining :- the remaining old bill and the remaining new and that would be it, ie that it includes both bills."


Repeat the "promise" from AW's Code of Practice as below:

http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/_asset...2)_1-10-12.pdf

"Above all, we can help by listening to you. If we know that you are trying to pay your bill, there will be no need to carry out any court action, which would add the extra expense of court costs to your bill."

Ned was trying to pay, there was no need to carry out any court action, and the extra costs are unnecessary. But, as AW have incurred them, they should pay them.

When Ned gets the papers, I don't think he should just sign them. In his position, I would probably delete any parts that he does not agree with i.e. the parts that increase his payment above its current level, and the part where they have added on solicitors fees, TAKE a COPY, and then sign it and send it back. (In other words, modify the papers so that when he signs, he has only agreed to what the trust fund implied, that he would carry on paying at the current rate, and after six months, the trust fund would pay any outstanding amounts.)

If AW are as devious as they seem, they will probably start bleating about how he has refused to agree to their "generous" offer. So you can expect this.

Edit: Even if AW send a paying-in book at the higher level, I think Ned should just continue to pay at the current amount.

Are CCCs giving any advice?

rhoda_baker

to answer martvader, thanks for your reply by the way! you said I won't pretend that I understand all of your post, but, is the current situation, that AW and the mediator believe has been agreed, is that Ned will pay (1) the current bill and arrears (if any) and at the same time, also pay (2) "next years" bill in advance, and in addition, he will pay (3) AW's solicitors costs?


Right, I they have said, (AW) when he rang for a paying- in book, that he would need to pay the installments that he is still paying (for the current bill) in dispute - and also at the same time installments from the new bill! and the new bill is period of charge 1 april 2012- 31 march 2013. so it looks like they expected him to pay the lot upfront (yes pay for water BEFORE he'd used it!!) as they said PAYABLE WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT no offer of installments, (however this was then negotiated by Ned to be installments monthly). - split into 12 of £49 monthly.

Then during mediation, by way of contradiction, AW then say he does not need to pay the current amount monthly which continues, (£39 is monthly) BUT the NEW sum of higher installments of £45 monthly instead! (taken from the new bill) mediator said that after the 6 month requirement of paying that then the AW trust fund will pay the outstanding. I think she thought that AW will pay the outstanding on the current bill and also the new bill! what I'm saying is I think that AW will pay just the outstanding amount of the smaller bill if that makes sense? then the larger bill will still have to be paid. - probabaly with the increased installments. I think they added the bills together when claiming the amount off Ned, but when it came to what Ned will qualify for (to be paid by AW trust) then they become two separate items., two separate sums. Like moving the goalposts.

Ned did not agree to paying the AW solicitors funds, when the mediator reeled off what the agreement would be, which he would be required to sign. I think he just said 'I see'.

to answer this also, When Ned gets the papers, I don't think he should just sign them. In his position, I would probably delete any parts that he does not agree with i.e. the parts that increase his payment above its current level, and the part where they have added on solicitors fees, TAKE a COPY, and then sign it and send it back. (In other words, modify the papers so that when he signs, he has only agreed to what the trust fund implied, that he would carry on paying at the current rate, and after six months, the trust fund would pay any outstanding amounts.) I think this is an absolutely brilliant suggestion!!:beer: and, to repeat their 'promise' good suggestion again.:T

Sorry if my post is just one big ramble, i had to do it whilst it was still fresh in my head and I could recall it, I only wrote some things down at the time of mediation, ...thanks for trying to make sense of it, I tell you my brain is addled with it....poor old Ned is confused, and he's coping with painkillers making him drowsy as well.

about CCCS - they have to call Ned first and then get his permission and then I have be there as well, and then after that when he has given his permission then I have permission to deal with it on his behalf, so with everything else going on, that is on a back burner for now, but if need be, he will press on with that.

mart.vader

"TAKE a COPY, and then sign it and send it back"

I should have said, sign it, then take a copy, and then send it back !

rhoda_baker

Ned update......well no news is good news as they say. The mediation agreement was signed and sent back, and have heard nothing to the contrary of it not being received, (signed for)

For anybody else following this thread, the mediation agreement was basically permission for him to carry on paying his installments as he has been doing (and had never missed any. )Took all of ten minutes., or there abouts. For anybody else having telephone mediation, they call you to see if you are ready to start,then they call the water company to see if they are ready to start then they call you back and tell you the situation as they see it, you then correct them, then they tell you what the water company have proposed, in Neds case it was permission to carry on as usual, so Ned said fine. Then they said ok we will send you the agreement (generated by the water company and not the court) Seems kind of ridiculous as, if for any reason mediation had failed, they could not take him to court for non payment, as that did not occur, its sort of like that they think its been their idea for him to pay installments yet it was what had been occurring throughout...slightly pointless....

Not much time allowed him to sign, understand and return the agreement, for understand, read mediator instructed one thing, AW instructed another. He had to try to clarify which set of instructions to follow, He went with what was on the agreement. oh and finally a paying in booklet arrived but just for the new bill....as the bill in question is for the old bill (amount remaining) he is having to keep using the same page to pass through the machine (barcode) and it has about 4 receipts attached to it., he will continue to do this as clearly there won't be a book sent for that, despite been told contrary, and he has to be able to actually pay via booklet.

I digress, but...interestingly if you don't have installments, one is expected to pay a year upfront for ones water, and then be told there is a hospipe ban....:eek:..yet we are surrounded by water (the sea) ......is it me???

Will post up any further developments, as I do not think we can rest on our laurels as yet....call me fraser "aye we're all doomed" (of dad's army) but I think if everything is all seemingly going to plan then obviously something has been overlooked!! in other words when he has done his installments required then trust has paid off remainder then i'll believe it when i see it....can't help expecting a sly trick to be played...Of course for his sake I hope it does go as he's been led to expect. Will keep updating. Have had vertigo due to stress, and virus, so whilst recovering have been slower to update this time, sorry. But am feeling much better and have a rescue kitty addition to distract from any queasiness, add to the general chaos of the place!:rotfl:

Also giving grateful thanks to mart vader who has been a gem!:beer: