water summons and trust fund

rhoda_baker

I wanted to try and help and I have written this down as notes, so here I am posting this for an old guy (ned) who I have just been speaking to, in the post office, and has no computer, he has received what he thinks is a summons for northampton county court. he says the form is a N1CPC. It's come as his water bill installment was late being paid.

He gets DLA., monthly on either 2nd or 3rd week of month but sometimes first. He can't really seem to work out when its due.

He has been paying £40 weekly to anglican water via installment book, but due to being disabled he has a carer do it, and the very rural location had a convenient paypoint or is it payzone at a local shop where it had been paid off.

This all went swimmingly, until the payzone machine failed to operate at all, on several times it resulted in payments being past the date but still paid, and he kept anglican water informed. 4 times in I think 18 months. Seems the shop took ages to get it fixed.

They were very nice/kind to him at anglican water help number, presumably as he kept them informed, and everything was fine.

This month it would appear that the payzone facility has been completely removed and the nearest is a further two miles. therefore november's £40 was paid there but late. this has generated the court letter.

He is very worried and has heard about a trust fund which is is applying for to help pay the bill outstanding.

1) Now does he have to go to the court at northampton as his mobility is extremely poor, or can he plead guilty by letter?

2) Will it go back to square one, once heard in court and he will get a new installment book from anglican? (If his trust fund application fails.)?
He has kept all his receipts for payment to anglican water.

He doesn't know what he should do.

Thanks for help in anticipation.:)

Gothicfairy

He can fill in the paperwork he will receive from the court and explain his defence, he does not have to attend as they can rule without him.

Whatever he pays will be to the court as part of the CCJ and debt, they will tell him how much to pay and when.

He will need to sort out paying the rest of the bill ( is charged by RV in advance or if charged on a meter in arrears ) as the court will only take it up to xx date and he will owe from that date onwards.
He can have direct payments taken from his benefits or DD or pay with a card over the phone so he does not need to stick to paypoint if it is becoming impossible

Cardew

As you have explained it I would get the local media involved and get them to take it up - or even BBC Watchdog.

rhoda_baker

Thanks for replies, :beer:

I printed them off for Ned, who has filled in the bit of the form where it's marked 'defence' and wrote out the points he had to make,( ie disabled, no payzone, paid it up to date but late,) on that form, kept photocopies, and sent it to the court, (thanks, gothic fairy) and also asked that he have the further court costs taken off too.

I will keep this updated as to Ned's progress, on behalf of Ned, thanks for taking the time to reply, he is not quite as anxious as he was.!

Gothicfairy

I wish him the best of luck and if you / him need us again please do come back and ask..There is a lot of help out there and he does not need to do it alone so to speak.

I would hope the court look at the case and see how much he has paid and what he has done to try and sort this out and give him a easy payment plan.

rhoda_baker

Cardew, thanks for reply, he was contemplating going to the local paper, but didn't know if it would generate bother, or misquoting,
or highlighting that he lives alone and is vulnerable., so decided against it.

He thought that going to watchdog with his story, (sending it,) could be a good idea and help others in the same boat., he is considering it., but wouldn't want to appear.... He's wanting to reinstate payzone in local store, and is looking into how he can do it....Hopefully, the steps he's taken will sort it though.

McKneff

DLA is paid four weekly, confusing sometimes when bills come in monthly, so sometimes DLA is paid twice in one month ie 1st and 29th.

Is it possible he could arrange a dd to the water company, ie every 4 weekly (not monthly) to concide with his DLA payment, maybe 1 or 2 days after the payment.

Good luck to him and well done to you for looking after him

Gothicfairy

The bill or payment amount can come straight out of his benefits if he applies for or asks for direct payments.

rhoda_baker

Thanks for replies but Ned won't use a bank account for his benefits and direct debits - as he doesn't want to be penalised and have his benefits taken by bank charges when his benefits get mucked up (as is regular occurence regarding benefits payments)

Update re: Ned and Anglican Water...

The latest development is, he sent off his defence and was specifically told NOT to send it to the court, but instead to Anglican Water at the address given. So he did, Then he received a letter from the COURTS acknowledging receipt of his defence..... (seems odd that Anglican water did not want him to send his defence to courts - yet the courts have clearly seen it! - I wonder what's going on there then?)

Next, he gets a letter from Anglican Water, saying "The Court have sent me a copy of your defence, - (now, why would the court have had to send AW a copy of the defences papers when Ned had already sent the said papers to AW, as requested...he definitely did as he sent it recorded delivery as I suggested, and has shown me.?)

Then it states 'now that it is a 'legal matter' Ned has not got to contact AW on the phone number they give on the bills/paying in book, as 'those people will not be familiar with his 'case'. Yet these are the very people who have bought up his info on the computer each time and added notes of what is happening, and recorded times that he has called them to explain why payment was going to be late. This seems odd.

Finally the letter says "although you had a paying in book you failed to make the payments on time, and the reasons you give are not a justifiable defence and AW does not accept this." They also deny that any phone calls advising that Ned's payment would be late and why, were never made! Luckily Ned can retrieve all his landline fully itemised bills to prove otherwise, what a good job he kept them.

So, basically they are saying it tough that Ned is disabled and its tough that he lives in a rural area, and tough that the payzone has been removed! And tough that his benefits payments are never on the same week as the previous, or same day of month...Ned has continued to make his payments though they (AW) have omitted to mention this, interestingly. It says his case will be heard at a local court now. However, confusingly, the end paragraph says that he can call this particular person at AW to discuss 'possible repayment options', and includes court costs and fees of £450 ontop of the outstanding balance.


So what he can do now,I don't know what to suggest to him. I actually think that he is being discriminated against. He can't help being disabled or living in a very rural location which facility has been removed and caused inconvenience to many. He has not refused to pay at any time. My thoughts are that he pays I think £40 a month to pay it off, but maybe the courts will offer him a lower repayment? then it would take even longer to clear, I don't know why AW can't just let him continue with the payment book of monthly installments really as they are plunging him into further debt,with court costs and fees, and their indifference and lack of compassion, is frankly, staggering.

NB In the first paragraph the letter states AW are considering the contents of the defence papers, yet in paragraph four they have already made up their mind that AW doesn't accept the reasons given as a justifiable defence...this is contradictory....

Cardew

rhoda_baker wrote: »

NB In the first paragraph the letter states AW are considering the contents of the defence papers, yet in paragraph four they have already made up their mind that AW doesn't accept the reasons given as a justifiable defence...this is contradictory....

Not necessarily.

They are stating that they don't accept his case.

However it is possible that they may drop the case as a 'goodwill gesture'.

Frankly given the facts as you have presented them, I really doubt if it will get to court.

mart.vader

Rhoda,

I read your account of your friend Ned's problems with Anglian Water. I think they are behaving abhorrently,

This is only a suggestion, but as he has been told not to contact AW. you could write to them, and tell them that he is a vulnerable customer, by reason of his disability, who they are supposed to be assisting, rather than persecuting,

("the reasons you give are not a justifiable defence and AW does not accept this") I beg to differ, the reasons given are a perfectly justifiable defence. He is disabled and the Payzone was removed.

Ask AW whether they want this story in the local papers.

You can tell Ned that if the Local Papers run the story, they should not reveal his address.

You may find some guidance on the OFT's pages on Debt Collection; You may think that the OFT only covers shops and credit cards , but they also cover Water Cos. and the Water Co in this instance, are acting as Debt Collectors.

There are some fairly strict procedures which debt collectors must follow.

The link is here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/OFT664Rev.pdf

If you believe AW have broken any of these rules, you can make a complaint to OFT. Clause 3.7(m) seems a good one.

It's very easy for AW to withdraw the court action. If nothing else it might make AW sit up and take notice.