water summons and trust fund

Gothicfairy

Problem is , in a way it is all tough, they don't care and to be honest they shouldn't as they should treat everyone the same,...Now don't get me wrong I am not agreeing with their actions but I think Neds best option is court as they will be able to see the payments / situation and set a plan he can manage in the future and once set there will be nothing the water company can do about it.

rhoda_baker

Thanks for replies I am printing them for Ned to see. Especially thanks to mart vader, that is an excellent posting thankyou so much for taking the time to do the links, and provide a good answer/solution there, I think there are some really good points to put in his next reply letter to AW there.

Thanks gothic fairy, yes I also think that the court might order a repayment plan of less than what he is paying now too. In a way its quite crazy because he budgets very well indeed so that he can manage the monthly payment, its just that he is rural, disabled, and his payment facility was removed.

mart.vader

Rhoda,

I forgot to say, also see clause 2.2 paragraph 3.

Let us know if you decide to involve the local papers.

teazelcat

advise not to have money taken of benefit as they will take of the highest amount they can whether he can afford it or not and they will do this without consent. make an arrangement with the court what he can afford to pay. the water company should have a trust fund that will pay of all the arrears just look it up under the water provider,::eek:

Gothicfairy

teazelcat wrote: »

advise not to have money taken of benefit as they will take of the highest amount they can whether he can afford it or not and they will do this without consent. make an arrangement with the court what he can afford to pay. the water company should have a trust fund that will pay of all the arrears just look it up under the water provider,::eek:

That is just not true, they will take about £3.50 per week and no more an the figure is set by the DWP and not the water company and it is based on what the person can afford, you can only have one or two running from your benefits for that reason.
The trust fund does not pay all the arrears, it looks at the situation and awards an amount based on what they see.

Oh but they legally can set up direct payments without the customers permission so that bit is right

rhoda_baker

Update, I have seen Ned this morning and he showed me a letter he got yesterday, (I think,) it consists of:

1. Notice of Transfer proceedings

which says 'to all parties, a defence of this claim has been filed, if the defendant is an individual, the claim has been transerred to the court covering the area where the defendant lives or carries out business. please read the accompanying documents carefully and note that where enclosed, the allocation questionnaire should be returned to the named court by the date shown.'

2. Notice that a defence has been filed

which says 'an allocation questionnaire is enclosed which contains notes for guidance on how to complete it' (then a date and the named court to return it to)


3. Allocation questionnaire


A) settlement - would you like to use the free small claims mediation service provided by the court to help you settle the claim with the other party?

location of hearing - is there any reason it cannot be heard in the court named, if so say why.

C) Track - do you agree that the small claims court is the most suitable track for this claim? if no say why.

D) Witnesses - so far as you know at this stage how many witnesses other than yourself do you intend to call to give evidence at the hearing?

E) Experts - do you want permission to use an experts report at the hearing if yes what will the experts evidence deal with? Have you already obtained an experts report? If yes have you given a copy of that report to the other party? In addition to using an experts report do you want your expert to attend court and give evidence?
If yes, give reasons why you think their attendance is necessary. The court may order the appointment of a single expert who can be instructed by both parties,if you think this would not be appropriate say why.

F) Hearing are there any days you, an expert, or a witness would not be able to attend?

G) Other information -In the space below set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim including any other information you consider should be supplied by the other party.

H) Fee -have you attached the fee for filing this allocation questionnaire? An allocation fee is payable if your claim or counterclaim exceeds £1, 500 Additional fees will be payable at further stages of the court process.

I) if a solicitor is acting for you please enter details.


My interpretation of it is: So despite his mitigating circumstances being good, clearly anglian water have chosen to ignore this, have never acknowledged the letter he sent, probably recorded delivery, and proceed with taking Ned to court, incurring various extra fees for this that and the other causing him more debt.

In the section G 'other information' I think Ned should attach a copy for the court, of the letter he sent anglian water with his defence and the rules they had broken, and how he felt discriminated against.,and that he continues to pay his installments. Am I right in thinking this?

Any suggestions, guidance will be much apreciated and passed on to Ned. I can't imagine how he feels, he is clearly very down, because now it is even becoming very complicated for me to understand what he should do now.,or what to tell him and how to help. My gut feeling is that he wouldn't get a fair hearing in a magistrates court as money can be made from him, or am I being cynical.? Oh, and he will hear in about 6 weeks whether he has been granted the money from the AW trust to pay off his outstanding and make a clean start of it. Doesn't look like this was taken into account either.

rhoda_baker

Furthermore there are a couple of points which was in the most recent letter to Anglian Water, legal dept, like him being discriminated against, he hadn't stopped paying and still was, and a couple or 3 of clauses from the debt recovery guide which AW had broken, this has not been put into the defence papers which the court has as it occured after, should Ned put those points into his updated defence? I think so, I think that he thought by presenting these very valid points, to AW he thought he'd make them reconsider but clearly not. Maybe he should put them into his defence, and mention that AW fail to acknowledge his co-operation ie phone calls and continued payment, and asked him not to contact AW help as they would not be familiar with his case.

mart.vader

Hi Rhoda,

Wow ! !, AW still want to take him to court? Even after they have seen his defence? - I'm absolutely amazed.

Did your local newspapers show any interest? What about your local councillor? or your MP? That's what they get paid all that money for.

How much are AW claiming? and the costs?

So, lets get this straight, Ned has filed a defence, which says, that he is elderly, disabled, with limited mobility, in a rural location with no Payzone facilities, he has kept up the payments, but 4 of the payments in 18 months have been merely late, (not 'haven't been paid') solely because the payment facility was removed, and AW told him not to contact them?, and in six weeks he might be granted the money from AW's trust fund to pay the "debt"

In your (Ned's) position, I don't think I would send an updated defence,

I would send a letter to the Court Manager at the court (quote the case reference, it should be on the papers they sent,) and say:-

"I would be grateful if you could place the following mitigating circumstances before the District Judge in this case . . . "

Then repeat all the factors as above like, disabled, kept up payments etc. and say that Ned is quite agreeable to use the free mediation service provided by the court.

Edit: Also the Judge should "peruse" the facts of the case before the hearing anyway. but it can't hurt if you ask for the facts to be put before them.

Ned may be able to get a "remission" from having to pay the allocation questionnaire and any other the court fees, by filling in this form EX160A" Court fees - Do I have to pay them?" - It doesn't say anything about DLA, but he may get it based on "Remission" 2 or 3 i.e. low income or low disposable income.

The link is here:

http://hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_eng.pdf

(Yes, I know it's going to be a pain, giving them copies of all the proof they want, but it will save having to pay court fees for something that AW could have easily avoided.)

I can't see any district judge giving this claim, the time of day, nor any way for AW to avoid coming over as arrogant, petty and persecuting an old man.

I am not by any means an expert in legal matters, but you should be able to get some free advice from a local solicitor, or citizens advice bureau.

Let us know how you get on (and Good Luck !)

rhoda_baker

Ned update..

mart.vader said : So, lets get this straight, Ned has filed a defence, which says, that he is elderly, disabled, with limited mobility, in a rural location with no Payzone facilities, he has kept up the payments, but 4 of the payments in 18 months have been merely late, (not 'haven't been paid') solely because the payment facility was removed, and AW told him not to contact them?, and in six weeks he might be granted the money from AW's trust fund to pay the "debt"

That is correct, yes., mart. Also the trust fund sent back his application asking him to break down his monthly benefit payments into four, giving a weekly sum. which has delayed the outcome.


I have now done the letter for him, to send to the courts, I have done it how you said (mart.vader grateful thanks for your very helpful guidance,) AW have also been contacted via phone, to see if they have received the letter which was sent to them on 20 Dec (outlining mitigating circumstances but which was never acknowledged) - they received this letter, now they say they aim to give a reply by the end of this week (a month later) but that will be too late as the defence and court documents has to be completed and submitted. They (AW legal dept) have said that these court documents have to be filled in and returned by defendant regardless of what the response from AW is going to be anyway.

The amount being claimed what Ned owes is £1,116 plus costs and fees of £145.00 total £1,261. However as payments have been continuing (as his pay in book still has pages to be used,) the amount will need adjustment to take payments off the amount I would have thought.

I think this amount is below the amount for when you must pay further court charges and fees? Isn't the amount which incurs costs to defendant over £1,500?

mart.vader

Hi Rhoda,

How was the sum of £1,116 arrived at? I thought there were only four payments that had arrived merely late in 18 months, How can AW say he owes £1,116? Even if the payments had been actually missed and unpaid, surely he doesn't pay £279 per month? (4 x 279 = 1116)

Have you or Ned managed to get any ( free) legal advice from a solicitor? And if so, what did they say?

You have sent a letter to the Judge explaining why Ned has got into this situation, (perfectly understandable, in my opinion) - If the Judge has a heart, or any common sense, he/she will tell both parties to go to mediation as per the document you received:-

"A) settlement - would you like to use the free small claims mediation service provided by the court to help you settle the claim with the other party?"

This would give Ned the chance to get his figures to the trust fund, and for them to say whether or not he qualifies. It would also allow the mediation service to hopefully inject a little more common sense into the matter.

You said "I think this amount is below the amount for when you must pay further court charges and fees? Isn't the amount which incurs costs to defendant over £1,500?" - I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean for the allocation fee, as per H) in your list, then as per this link, http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/compactlaw-admin/court-fees.html - I think it's £35, but I'm not sure if both parties have to pay this or just the "Claimant" (Anglian Water), and Ned may get "remission" from having to pay.

On this link, AW say: http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/_assets/media/COP_Online_Bro_1-2-10_With_Links_(2)_1-10-12.pdf

" If you find it difficult to get the money to us, for example, if you are housebound and cannot easily get out, we can try to help you find a way to pay."

and

"Above all, we can help by listening to you. If we know that you are trying to pay your bill, there will be no need to carry out any court action, which would add the extra expense of court costs to your bill."


On a slightly different subject, on http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/household/promise/
AW say that if they don't reply to your query about the bill within 10 days, they will credit the account with £20.

I hope that someone on this forum, pops up to give you some more advice.