UPS UKASH UKCASH Gumtree Scam and scams in general

Tunstallstoven

I just looked at the ad again and it's odd because it seems so genuine and legit.... What do you guys think. Saying that, the emails and texts seemed so "normal" too. Good scam this one....

rimmy

Hi seagull. Glad I/we helped you to avoid it. Unfortunately I fell for it - as you say, the emails seem too convincing.

I wouldnt worry too much about the details - lots of suspiciions point at the fraudsters being offshore.

soolin

Scams wouldn't work unless they were believable, the best con men are the ones that your brain tells you can't possibly be crooked.

Many many years ago before I even had the internet I worked in a bank and was almost conned by the nicest, most charming and polite con man you could ever possibly meet. It was only because an elderly lady on the staff realised there was a con going on and called the police that we didn't lose a great deal of money.

notthebrightestobviously

unfortunately i was a victim aswell after trying to buy an eberspacher heater from gumtree and paying £120 via ukash. it was only after it didn't turn up that a colleague suggested i do a search of her email address online and low and behold 18pages worth of fellow victims some of which were lucky and realised before parting with any cash. i too got the txt message originally and then was told to pay via parcelforce which i thought at the time looked like a legitimate company. i cant see how gumtree can let this happen as its the same email for loads of different ads. disgusting how this is allowed to go on. gutted and cold!

cheekychap00

just received a letter from the financial ombudsman
it is a complaint letter that they type out as you make your complaint to them by phone (you can also write to them)
they will take the case up if i am not happy and ukash have given me my final decision.
that means ukash are £500 out of pocket for the ombudsman getting involved and i do not have to appear in front of the ombudsman
i only have to submit my complaint and case evidence and they decide on that
hope this helps
remember been scammed
report to action fraud get ref number
report to local police(this is so they also know whats happening)
complain to ukash get complaint number (it will be on a letter that ukash send you)
contact the ombudsman, complain before ukash decision,
(financial ombudsman will write to ukash re complaint)
my complaint is that ukash have been negligent in allowing a scam to run for two years and i want my money back from them
john

ladyindahouse

Hi every one,
I was nearly court out by kate75porter@gmail.com. On 9 November.
Advert was for a Nautilus Multi Gym with Smith Machine In Excellent Condition.£280. She was based in Middlesbrough, York. Ad ref 110770597.
Same emails and text message no telephone number.Very convincing.Got the email about voucher for ukash that's when the alarm bells started to ring. Googled ukash and parcelforce and that's when I found this forum.
Hope these scammers get what they deserve, jail hopefully.
Thanks to all.

pemtium

seagull, if you paste the txt of the ad for the guitar into Google you will see the exact ad for the guitar! It ended on 29th Oct and sold for £410 from a member with good feedback so deffo a scam....

GTK

I have been in touch with Gumtree Response Team, as I do feel there is security loophole in Gumtree that all these scammers are taking advantage of. This is where scammers are allowed to create ads with NO contact phone, but Gumtree still "encourages" buyers to reply providing their mobile phone number in their first response to the seller.

This means, the scammers simply text directly back to the victim using a completely separate scammer's contact details (that will be unknown in Gumtree's system). So… really very hard for Gumtree to spot and pro-actively monitor.

Where the scammer contacts the buyer directly by text like this, it totally circumvents using Gumtree's secure online reply system, and ensures the scammers leaves NO potential identification left on the Gumtree's system (nor on the ad itself). Although, when the buyer sees a seller's mobile sender IDs of “pamela.s.ip“ or “deb.s.iphon”, or a seemingly non UK number like "726352747" it really should ring alarm bells.

So… suggestion for a simple change in the Gumtree system in how the replying to ads works for "For Sale" items, to make it much harder for this type of scamming to work on such a large (almost industrial) scale as we are now seeing.

If in creating “Post an ad” the seller chooses NOT to tick the option “By phone” (for “How would you like to be contacted?”) for their ad, then Gumtree's system should encourage buyers to also NOT to leave a mobile number on their FIRST response to the seller.

In this situation, Gumtree could modify their ad’s response form stopping the buyer entering their mobile number on their FIRST response to the seller. In this way the seller is forced to make their "first contact" reply back to the buyer by using Gumtree's secure online reply email forwarding system. This could make it possible for Gumtree to auto-detect for potential fraudulent replies from sellers.

This may not be a perfect solution. But as this scam is so very "successful" by these gangs, and catching so many new buyers out, this system modification may well help.


I also strongly recommended to Gumtree that they update their “Stay Safe” points (that is always shown on ad’s response form page) to say something like:-

• "If the seller does not wish to use Gumtree's secure email forwarding system for their online replies (or texts you a private email address to use), it means you ARE at greater risk of fraud."
  
  
• "Never use Ukash to pay for items purchased from classified ads or give the voucher code to anyone else." (which is advertised on the UKash FAQs at Ukcash website)

GTK

cheekychap00

yes the scammers are indeed taking advantage of gumtrees lax security
but my dealings with gumtree are that they are not listening to anyone.
you get automated after automated response type answers and they are too quick to give you their final "hope we have answered your question and if we do not hear from you within 48 hours - matter closed" when the question was what are you going to do about this and remains unanswered
gumtree should re open their forums for a start. that way suggestions like gtk are there in print for the gumtree security to be spoon fed with ideas that they obviously do not have the intelligence to think of themselves and the diminishing gumtree users directed to the forums so that a history of the scams can be built up and users get a warning from gumtree rather than having to google ukash parcelforce or the latest scam name ie deborah regan kate price.
no doubt when this scam ends another equally well thought out one will take its place.
On another note the betting sites that this money is going to ie bet365 and others have a kyc (know your customer) policy the same as the banks. one of the securities is an address has to be verified by a letter going to the address and if subsequently they suspect fraud they can ask you to provide the details of the letter they have sent you or no money.
not being a gambler i am not sure how the gambler receives his money .i linkedln neal griffiths fraud and operations manager at bet365 and dorinda bradbury responsible for police checks ect and i do not feel the money is going into offshore accounts and is traceable.
there was a thread i think it was in one of the gambling forums that this poor fellow sorry fellow with poor english could not get his money out of bet365 because he could not provide the original receipts of his vouchers or the updated info and his money was frozen..
it is also widely rumoured that certain betting companies use software to detect signatures on their customers computers ect so
i do not think this is such a faceless crime after all.

GTK

I too (nearly) got scammed, and emailed Gumtree recently with my details, and their response was exemplary and quick in responding and removing the ad (within 48hrs). They also emailed me over the weekend (so they were working hard).

I have already been in touch with Gumtree regarding my suggestion above, today, and I had a response, today (Sunday), saying “Yes, this is a great suggestion that I will be passing on to management.” So, they are listening.

I can only guess Gumtree are truly being overwhelmed by this scam, and I think it must be a Herculean job trying to keep up with the number of fraudulent ads and verifying complaints. And as I have observed, it may be very hard for Gumtree to “spot” these fraud ads until someone complains with a specific Ad identifier. I really do hope my suggestion will make it harder (at least on Gumtree) for this and similar scams to no longer become so widespread in the future.

But, we should not also lose site, that the public have a responsibility too. Receiving texts from an unidentifiable or foreign mobile “number” really should start alarm bells ringing. Being asked to email outside of Gumtrees’s secure email forwarding system is also a warning. Buying online vouchers and not to read how to use them safely, and purchasing items from a “private” classified (seemingly UK originated) ad and then not to want to actually “talk” to this private seller … are all things we should be more savvy on.

And I completely agree, Ukcash business model makes this type of fraud easy for crime gangs. Indeed, in the latest 19th Oct 2012 Ukash “UK” Terms & Conditions under terms for Security:

7.2 Ukash shall not be obliged to verify that the person presenting the voucher code and amount to Ukash via a Participating Merchant is the Holder of, or is otherwise entitled to use, the Ukash voucher code. (My bold).


So. Ukash have a well defined (international) business niche for their voucher redemption… and changing their business model may well be slow going (and may need to be a regulatory type change)… hence putting effort into making suggestions to stop how this type of scam can become so industrialised by organised gangs by taking advantage of security loopholes on buy/selling web sites, and working to educate the public to become more savvy. And repeating...

• "If the seller does not wish to use Gumtree's secure email forwarding system for their online replies (or texts you a private email address to use), it means you ARE at greater risk of fraud."

GTK