Fischer Storage Heaters

grahamc2003

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

What do people think of this claim...He goes on to give an Ebay URL, yet has over 4000 thanks to his name. It's post #5 here.

I didn't realize that. I have a one-bar example that's been in my loft unused for at least 25 years (hoarded for 'emergency use', you see ); are you saying that they also don't heat the air, and that I could be sitting here right now being warmed as efficiently as my halogen does?

Not sure what you are asking about the heatpump claim. It just means it has a cop of 4. Some heatpumps claim cops of over 5 these days (that's measured at the standard 7C - at higher ambient temperatures, the cops can be quite a bit higher than that).

The 100% efficient claim for electric heating implies (if not stated) resistive heating, which is probably 99.9% of all heaters. Air to air heatpumps aren't strictly heaters anyhow - they both heat and cool at the same time.

Of course, air to air heatpumps are a very valid solution for heating (and cooling) for those without gas - and as such, they won't attract a renewable subsidy from the decc. The Decc only subsidise those technologies which otherwise wouldn't be taken up - i.e. the very poor solutions.

vickyanne_2

These sort of companies make me laugh, they often say it works with solar energy, ok it does but as someone with solar pv I could tell them it would be great in summer (if for some strange reason you wanted to heat your house!)but don't they realise that in winter you don't generate very much 'spare' electricity to power it?

I'm at home all day and our storage heaters serve us very well in our well insulated house and with automatic input ones they stay hot 24/7. Yes they do cost more than gas but they last for years and there aren't any maintenance or servicing costs which offsets this a bit.

Kernel_Sanders

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Not sure what you are asking about the heatpump claim......Of course, air to air heatpumps are a very valid solution for heating (and cooling) for those without gas

Maybe you didn't realize that was a link, but had you clicked it, you'd have seen he is claiming that each kWh of heat produced is only costing 3p in electricity, and hence cheaper than gas!
[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

Richie-from-the-Boro

Any decent smallish 'well-performing' 5kW variable air to air only is going to cost in excess of £2k before fitting less the RHI grant of £850, and then air to air only does not produce hot water. My problem is the phrase 'well-performing' or put conversely anything costing less than £2k is probably not going to be 'well-performing'. Either way a well-insulated house is a pre-requirement for these types of systems otherwise the heat the pump generates will, as they say, 'go straight up the chimney'.

To achieve the same as the above plus water heating you are going to have to treble the output to about 15kW or leave it at 5kW and fit solar to water or some other water heating. The above sounds like I am not a fan - whereas I am indeed a big fan of the system. If I was doing my own home I'd go air to underfloor water heating.

Cardew

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Any decent smallish 'well-performing' 5kW variable air to air only is going to cost in excess of £2k before fitting less the RHI grant of £850, and then air to air only does not produce hot water.

I didn't think Air to Air qualified for RHI???

I agree about 'decent' air to air heat pumps costing around £2k.

However on Ebay from time to time there are cheap Chinese pumps for a few hundred pounds. These are really just suitable for, say, a conservatory; you just knock a hole in the wall. Also perhaps he bought one second hand.

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I suggest we move discussion on heat pumps to the LPG etc forum where there are several theads. We should keep the message for any new readers nice and simple . Fischer heaters are hugely overpriced and give out no more heat, for the same running cost, than a £10 Argos fan heater.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Cardew wrote: »

I didn't think Air to Air qualified for RHI???

I agree about 'decent' air to air heat pumps costing around £2k.

However on Ebay from time to time there are cheap Chinese pumps for a few hundred pounds. These are really just suitable for, say, a conservatory; you just knock a hole in the wall. Also perhaps he bought one second hand.

I am certainly no fan of heat pumps, but I would rather waste money on cheap Chinese rubbish, that spend a fortune on Fischer heaters.

I suggest we move discussion on heat pumps to the LPG etc forum where there are several theads. We should keep the message for any new readers nice and simple . Fischer heaters are hugely overpriced and give out no more heat, for the same running cost, than a £10 Argos fan heater.

HiYa Cardew, I missed out about a year ago. A company was selling bare~bones Mitsibusi 5kW units on ebay brand new for £175:00. I didn't believe what my eyes saw, the advert though looked A ok so I quickly wrote to them asking for clarification.

About an hour later I checked the email .. .. no response .. .. but the price on their page had gone to £1750:00. I checked their sales they had sold one at £175:00. Yes I know I should have bought first and asked later, it looked like they did 'honour' their mistake and one person had a very nice day.

I agree with everything you say ref Fischer products [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]. So yes I'll leave [STRIKE]what's left of[/STRIKE] this thread exclusively to Fischer.

Richie-from-the-Boro

It just means that that they put in only a little / low electricity, and put out only a little / low heat. You can only ever get out the same or less than you put in - that's physics.

Cardew

Yvonne465 wrote: »

Thanks guys, I keep telling my aunt the same but she insist the Fischer sales bloke told her it takes a low amount of electricity to produce twice the amount of heat. I will now show her your replies. Another thing, would you say a £10 heater would deliver the heat in the room where as a fischer heater would deliver the heat in the bricks is this right so i can explain to her.

That is exactly why these types of firms insist on a personal visit. If he said that or not cannot be proven,.

[text deleted by MSE Forum Team]

The methods of deliver of heat vary. You can get virtually 'instant' heat from, say, a fan heater but there is no residual heat when heater is switched off.

Others like an oil filled radiator, are slower to produce heat as the power is warming the oil, but there is residual heat.

However as stated time and again, the total amount of heat produced by any electrical heater(for the same running cost) is EXACTLY the same.

It doesn't matter if the radiator is filled with any substance known to man, the above applies.

macman

You cannot just present an electricity bill in the small claims court to prove that the heaters do not meet their claims. You would need proper scientific evidence, which will not be cheap.
Everyones's electricity bills have risen, you can't possibly prove how much of this was due to Fischer's overpriced heaters.
If your aunt wants to go ahead then she has my full support, but it will be a long and potentially expensive process.

john1

Yvonne465 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how she goes about getting her money back, she paid by Visa and she now wants a refund. Her electricity bills have gone up by almost 30% since she has been using this heater.

Have at look at MSE info page on Section 75 in particular


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

(1) If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debt


NOTE bit about Supplier misrepresention etc


If it was credit card then your aunty can go after them and dont be put off re out of time etc The credit card issuer is jointly liable. end of story


Good luck