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Fischer Storage Heaters

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  • Hi people thank you so much for the replies. I phoned the salesman up and basically told him I can not afford that amount of money and that ecopower said they could do it for under 2k he said he will speak to his manager on monday and call me back lmao! We have paid a £100 deposit and have 7 days to change our minds so I was thinking is it worth haggling them down to 2k or less or should I tell them no thanks?
  • jalexa
    jalexa Posts: 3,448 Forumite
    edited 9 July 2013 at 3:18PM
    Padoli wrote: »
    is it worth haggling them down to 2k or less or should I tell them no thanks?

    This is entirely up to you but be very careful. You admitted you didn't know much about heating so how can decide?

    Unlike others I don't think the heaters are intrinsically bad, though they are very expensive. The fundamental issue is that, despite claims, they are not "storage heaters" using cheap rate E7 energy. They use full price electricity which is never a cheap way to heat anything other than a super-insulated home. Is your home "super insulated"? If you cannot answer yes then you are buying a pup.

    I explained in an earlier post how you could test the effectiveness and cost of heating your home. Don't spend big money until you know the answer.

    [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 24 July 2013 at 10:34AM
    Padoli wrote: »
    Hi people thank you so much for the replies. I phoned the salesman up and basically told him I can not afford that amount of money and that ecopower said they could do it for under 2k he said he will speak to his manager on Monday and call me back lmao! We have paid a £100 deposit and have 7 days to change our minds so I was thinking is it worth haggling them down to 2k or less or should I tell them no thanks?

    You should read this whole thread, and you will learn something from someone who has properly considered all options. The conclusion was :
    michty6 wrote: »
    Great. My living room is about 22m squared, I went with the 3.5 Kw since I think having more cheap heat available for this room is not a bad thing. Also it has 2 external walls.

    There is a door at the top of the stairs, so I just ordered a simple 1 Kw panel heater (with timer) for the downstairs landing. We can always set it to heat during the night so that nothing down there freezes. Or if my Mum goes to the shops, she can pop it on before she leaves and turn it off when she gets back...

    So I ordered 6 panel heaters (2 bedrooms we use, 2 study/spare rooms, bathroom, downstairs) and 3 storage heaters (living room, hall, kitchen). Total cost £1.2k.

    For anyone interested, this site was the cheapest I found for automatic charge storage heaters:
    Alert Electrical

    Others that weren't too far off:
    Tlc Direct
    HW Electric

    For panel heaters, I went with the hygienesuppliesdirect.com links posted earlier in this thread for the ones with thermostat + timers at a really good price. Six panel heaters and three night store, one of them dual for god knows what you'll get for even £2000. When alls done and dusted michty6 will be paying mainly night rate and you will be paying all 100% snake oil day rate.

    We know a local electrician so I am hoping he will know how to install these/take-out the old ones - otherwise I have asked for a few quotes from people I found on the web. Hopefully get this up and running not too long after the 20th when Hydro changes us over to E7!

    My point is michty6 was able to upgrade to modern spec E7 system for £1.2k, a much more sensible and long term workable decision. For half of what you are prepared to consider a [text deleted by MSE Forum Team] bargain michty6 has six panel heaters and three storage heaters.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • Common_sense_2-2
    Common_sense_2-2 Posts: 3 Newbie
    edited 9 July 2013 at 3:20PM
    Hi all, been reading with interests all your comments about these heaters. My parents ( in their 80's ) have had these heaters installed last year, and although they are heating the room very well, I question their safety on the 3 kW heater model , it was supplied with a 13 A plug fitted, when I've tested the heater with a meter it seems to be using 3250W (13.54A) While this is not enough to blow the fuse, it is enough to make it very hot! The result was that the plug had melted, when my father removed the plug from the wall socket it left the live pin in the socket, the socket was also damaged. I believe these heaters would be fine in Europe as their plugs are rated at 16 A generally.!
    I also questioned their claims on efficiency, I believe what you put in is what you get out, 1000w of electricity =1000w of heat. The only way you can get any more is by using another source of energy i.e. ground source heat pump or air source heat pump.
    They do produce a comfortable heat, just like an electric oil filled radiator with a remote thermostat, but at 20 times the purchase price!
    All in all I wouldn't recommend using Fischer heaters [text deleted by MSE Forum Team], just find a good and honest independent heating engineer and see what they would suggest.!
    Best of luck on that last point!!!
  • On the 3 kW heater model , it was supplied with a 13 A plug fitted, when I've tested the heater with a meter it seems to be using 3250W (13.54A) While this is not enough to blow the fuse, it is enough to make it very hot! The result was that the plug had melted, when my father removed the plug from the wall socket it left the live pin in the socket, the socket was also damaged. I believe these heaters would be fine in Europe as their plugs are rated at 16 A generally.!

    Most Euro's were / are two pin orientation recess and have no earth, some have an earthed pin, just as a matter of record did the UK version your parents had installed actually have an earth cable [not pin] wired into and through the UK ring circuit ? / or / was it in fact a UK shuttered pin system with no actual earth wire connected to the ring?

    I'm assuming during the warm up / full whack cycle - to have done that kind of damage the 'draw' must have been 16a or more at some point or points. A 20a breaker/fuse from the CU run on a radial circuit would be a safer bet.

    Thanks for your input on this Common sense.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • Hi all, been reading with interests all your comments about these heaters. My parents ( in their 80's ) have had these heaters installed last year, and although they are heating the room very well, I question their safety on the 3 kW heater model , it was supplied with a 13 A plug fitted, when I've tested the heater with a meter it seems to be using 3250W (13.54A) While this is not enough to blow the fuse, it is enough to make it very hot! The result was that the plug had melted, when my father removed the plug from the wall socket it left the live pin in the socket, the socket was also damaged. I believe these heaters would be fine in Europe as their plugs are rated at 16 A generally.!

    Since sleeved pins were introduced, 13A plugs aren't really good for sustained 13 amps any more. :(

    Also a heater rated in Europe at 3kW at 220V will take about 10% more current in the UK as it will be running off 240V. The actual voltage hasn't changed even though it's been "harmonized".
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Common_sense_2-2
    Common_sense_2-2 Posts: 3 Newbie
    edited 9 July 2013 at 3:20PM
    Most Euro's were / are two pin orientation recess and have no earth, some have an earthed pin, just as a matter of record did the UK version your parents had installed actually have an earth cable [not pin] wired into and through the UK ring circuit ? / or / was it in fact a UK shuttered pin system with no actual earth wire connected to the ring?

    I'm assuming during the warm up / full whack cycle - to have done that kind of damage the 'draw' must have been 16a or more at some point or points. A 20a breaker/fuse from the CU run on a radial circuit would be a safer bet.

    Thanks for your input on this Common sense.

    You are correct in saying that the euro plug is the two pin variety rated up to 2.5A (CEE 7/16). When I was referring to the European style plug I meant the Schuko plug which is rated up to 16A (CEE 7/4).

    The heater had a standard British 13 amp plug fitted (BS1363), which was then plugged into a standard wall socket on the ring main.

    I just think that plugging a heater rated at 3000 kW (3250kW actual) into wall socket is pushing it a bit! I don't think they should be supplying a heater of that power with a 13 amp plug fitted, as you have stated it would be far better to connect the heater via a flex outlet on radial a from the consumer unit which should be then fused at 20 A. [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]
  • Since sleeved pins were introduced, 13A plugs aren't really good for sustained 13 amps any more. :(

    Also a heater rated in Europe at 3kW at 220V will take about 10% more current in the UK as it will be running off 240V. The actual voltage hasn't changed even though it's been "harmonized".

    I thought it would be less?
    3000w / 220v = 13.6A
    3000w / 240v = 12.5A

    Could be wrong, the last time I did physics was 30 years ago! I'm a chippy really, wood and screws.

    I agree about the sleeved plugs though.
  • You're working the wrong way, you need to go back to Ohms law - V/R = I, you've already ascertained that it is drawing more than 3000W.

    The internal resistance of the heater doesn't change massively with a higher supply voltage - there will be a slight increase due to the element being at a higher temperature.

    220v / 12.5A = 17.6 ohms

    220v/17.6 ohms = 12.5A = 2750W
    240v/17.6 ohms = 13.6A = 3264W
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 July 2013 at 3:21PM
    You are correct in saying that the euro plug is the two pin variety rated up to 2.5A (CEE 7/16). When I was referring to the European style plug I meant the Schuko plug which is rated up to 16A (CEE 7/4).

    The heater had a standard British 13 amp plug fitted (BS1363), which was then plugged into a standard wall socket on the ring main.

    I just think that plugging a heater rated at 3000 kW (3250kW actual) into wall socket is pushing it a bit! I don't think they should be supplying a heater of that power with a 13 amp plug fitted, as you have stated it would be far better to connect the heater via a flex outlet on radial a from the consumer unit which should be then fused at 20 A.

    Its quite legal to run 3kW from a 13a, and in the case of these heaters they do cycle per the on / off thermostat, but running at the max rated load on any other than good quality spec plugs and sockets is and should be a concern - we have all seen examples where a sustained 3kW has burned through a cheepo plug / and / or / socket, anyway the fuse is there to protect the 'wiring in the wall' and the plug, not the appliance.

    My point is you said the plug burned, that's why I said it may have exceeded even the figure you gave, that's worrying because the proper gauge 'wire in the wall' over anything but a restricted length may have also suffered. Stick a clamp meter on it and see what it consumes from cold in a cold room. [text deleted by MSE Forum Team]
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
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