Public Sector. Good or Bad?

Old_Slaphead

Really2 wrote: »

Also civil service being lower paid on average like for like does not equate to being the lowest paid jobs in the country. Which was the quote I copied.

I would argue that (outside on London anyway) Civil Servants, when taking into account all aspects of their remuneration, T&Cs and working hours, are not, in the main, paid below average when compared to the roughly equivalent private sector jobs.

That's not to say every single CS does not compare badly, I'm talking about on average.

vivatifosi

wotsthat wrote: »

Oh right - a front line librarian.

I like books and reading but still think too much money is spent on libraries - if they are that great why do only old people use them?

Where I work they are used across the whole community. We've just had 600 kids through ours doing the Summer Reading Challenge and its not even a big library. Libraries are a relatively small cost for most local authorities and are also one of the most highly rated services, though to be fair, I do understand that a service that takes kids into care will not be highly rated, no matter how valuable it is in terms of child protection.

I work in the public and private sectors and there's waste in both, but in many authorities libraries are so far down the pecking order that it isn't really where you'll find much waste. I've seen far more waste in the big main office buildings.

marleyboy

The public sector only get bitten when (and only when) those in the Private sector (like the bankers) steal enough money to render the Country in dire straits, that is when these cretins look to the public sector to bleed for a refund.

IronWolf

Really2 wrote: »

And with that statement you prove that the private sector pay less than the public sector on a like for like basis as it would be uneconmicaly viable to do that otherwise.

Earlier we had the public sector have most of the lowest paid staff?



Why the disparity? There seems to be two arguments they are the lowest paid if it comes to wage increase/cuts, then there are no lower paid when it comes to like for like.

Erm, it doesn't prove anything of the sort. There are far more costs to employing staff that just their wages, the public sectors decision to outsource is based on far more than the wages people earn. The public sector also has limits on different areas of budget so could outsource operations even if it costs them more overall, just to switch costs to a different budget.

Unless you have evidence you're just speculating.

Andy_L

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I would much sooner employ someone with 5 years relevant experience that a 3rd class degree in golf course management.

What about someone with the degree & 2 years post-grad experience when you want them to work at a golf course?

Old_Slaphead

Andy_L wrote: »

What about someone with the degree & 2 years post-grad experience when you want them to work at a golf course?

Can you still leave school at 16 these days ? If not then I'd rather employ someone with 3 years relevant experience.

nb I don't work at a golf course (thank goodness)

Old_Slaphead

marleyboy wrote: »

The public sector only get bitten when (and only when) those in the Private sector (like the bankers) steal enough money to render the Country in dire straits, that is when these cretins look to the public sector to bleed for a refund.

But the public sector were quite happy to take & spend their share of the illusiory bank profits (you could argue that they were actually exhorted, by the Government, to continue their deceptive practices to keep feeding the voracious public sector). When they are found to be a mirage then I'm afraid you have to pay your share back.

wotsthat

vivatifosi wrote: »

Where I work they are used across the whole community. We've just had 600 kids through ours doing the Summer Reading Challenge and its not even a big library. Libraries are a relatively small cost for most local authorities and are also one of the most highly rated services, though to be fair, I do understand that a service that takes kids into care will not be highly rated, no matter how valuable it is in terms of child protection.

I live in a suburb of a midlands city. The city centre the library is reasonably busy but the demographic is definitely on the decrepit side of old (and the librarians aren't far off either).

In my suburb they just built a new library. This was built just as the council should have been questioning the spend. I pass it quite often and I haven't seen a single person entering or leaving plus it's only open 30 hours/ week. I think it might be used by schools as it's in the catchment of 4 decent sized schools but it's under utilised for sure.

Shutting libraries will hardly resolve the country's problems but it would have been easy to not build the new library (the main library is only a 15 minute bus ride away).

Really2

IronWolf wrote: »

Erm, it doesn't prove anything of the sort. There are far more costs to employing staff that just their wages, the public sectors decision to outsource is based on far more than the wages people earn. The public sector also has limits on different areas of budget so could outsource operations even if it costs them more overall, just to switch costs to a different budget.

outsourcing of lower paid/services was to save costs. Councils even tendered themselves for the work.
so if a private company can win a contract, employ someone to work for a lower cost than a council, it is obvious the councils cost is higher, that cost is basically being staff.
Every contractor has the same costs to implement & employ.

If they can make money out of providing a service for less than the department they are taking over can there are wage and/or inefficiency issues.

I wonder how bin persons pay has fared private vs public sector over the last 10 years or so?
I wonder what the average viola employee recived compared to let say Birmingham's staff

The binmen earned a basic salary of between £24,000 and £26,000, but the crew’s wages rocketed due to time-and-a-half overtime payments and £4,000 bonuses.
The salary level meant just one five-man unit - a driver and four loaders - pocketed a total of £225,000 in 2009 through a bonus and overtime deal.
The wages, which would have taken the men into the top income tax bracket, were made possible because the city council paid time-and-a-half to pick up rubbish not collected during the normal working week - a practice that continues today.
There was also a £4,000 productivity bonus for collecting recycling materials but it has now been removed as it was deemed to break equal pay laws.
Although the bonus was removed last November, overtime payments remain in place to ensure binmen still earn an average £32,000-a-year.

Although a lot may well have been tuped across.

The_White_Horse

why does a bin man have to work overtime. they should just walk a bit faster.

any "private sector" worker that works purely for public sector, is public sector.

why can these contract cleaners make a profit and still be cheaper than the public sector? because of public sector waste, massive salaries and obscene pensions.

public sector wasters.