9 yr about to be excluded again :(

Carrera74

thriftyjo wrote:

What hit me straight away from reading this is that you said about these events happen in the afternoon at school - why is this - are afternoons less or more structured. It may be worth your while going in and observing if you can get the time of work. I know somebody mentioned autism - aspergus syndrome is the lesser form of autism and like it can be triggered by a broken routine - i.e goign to his dads it might just be that the change of eating time or bed time confuse him. Also I would - you may already be, make a food diary and see if there is anything in particular that makes his behaviour worse - again this would work out with the afternoons change in behaviour - after lunch! Maybe you could try a new additive free diet - sorry don't know if you have tried this - am just suggesting the things I have had to do myself!

He is very lucky to have such understanding parents who are trying to do all they can for him! I think you are also lucky as it sounds asthough the school is trying to help and support him as much as possible.

He needs a routine or his behaviour goes worse – his Dad thinks him going to bed at 8pm every night is ridiculous for a 9 year old but he doesn’t have to deal with his behaviour when he’s over tired! I’ve not thought about a food diary but will start one today. Thanks for that. I don’t think work would appreciate me sitting in on his class – I’m surprised I haven’t been called in to HR with all the to-ing and fro-ing I’m doing at the moment. I’m not quite sure about the afternoon sessions. I know they did science yesterday and he likes that but couldn’t control himself. I’ll add it to the list of questions I’ve got for next weeks meeting.

andyrules

Hi Carrerra
thanks for your reply. Your situation sounds similar to someone I know personally - the girl has coped very well and is a model pupil, but her brother's behaviour is off the wall, usually worse after a visit.

I think that what you have said about the gf and her son is highly significant with his behaviour. Just a thought, is dad abusive to gf? Or does he treat gf and her son with the respect you didn't get? Either must be difficult to witness. I feel for you too.

I think the food diary sounds a good idea, and I think you should investigate ADHD/autism, but I'm willing to bet that's it's the visits and his memories that are the culprits, or at least major contributory factors.

Clearly, his outbursts impact on his class and he should have as a minimum an IEP with targets and strategies. However, I think it's time the SENCO (if not already) pushed for an assessment from ed psych with a view to a statement. Yes, they are expensive, but he could get a some hours allocated for 1-1 help even if not full time. This could help him through the worst times. His class teacher is limited in the help he/she can offer in a situation like this. Also, it doesnt have to be permanent. I personally think the noises are a desperate cry for attention as he finds it increasingly difficult to be quiet and concentrate. It is impossible to learn if your head is full of turmoil.

Sothe the school are pushing for PRU, but that doesnt have to be permanent either. Could you ask to visit it to see what you think? I would deff push for MAST (I'm assuming here that it isnt just a regional thing and that you have it in your area.) He will get the opportunity to talk freely without any judgement or emotional obstacles, and she can arrange work/games in small groups to help him and for her to observe. Additionally, the MAST co-ordinator will be in a good position for any recommendations for other help.
I suspect that you feel helpless and powerless, and sitting with a load of professionals can be daunting at the best of times. can you take someone with you for support? And yes, although the school are limited please push for as much as possible - a sad fact is that the kids who get the most help are often those with insistent parents.

Have you spoken to HR about this, it's possible they may be reasonable and sympathetic. I would assume the last thing they'd want is for you to go off with stress.

Good luck

Carrera74

As far as I am aware his dad isn’t abusive to his gf although they have had rows about my sons behaviour within ear shot one night when he didn’t want to stop over.

I went to collect him at lunchtime today and the SENCO had been called into class for 1:1 with him at 11.45 as he had started making noises and refused to go to his timeout area. He told me he wanted to sit at the computer to calm down not sit outside on his own. I am waiting for the SENCo to ring me to tell me exactly what happened this morning. She briefly showed me her notes that she had done, a whole A4 page, but said it would be better to talk without him ear wigging. I mentioned the ed psych to her last week when we did the IEP review (at my request) and she said that it would take ages for that to go through and the way I am doing it via CAMHS is the quickest way to get help. At the moment I’d be quite happy to pay to have him assessed privately so I can get the ball rolling with fixing him or at least get help for him to deal with whatever is happening in his head.

I’ve not heard of MAST but will have a nosey on google.

I’m going to take my other half to the meeting on Tuesday which no doubt will be bad enough with all the professionals but the ex has been invited and he still scares the hell out of me. He’ll no doubt try and belittle me and make it out its all my fault or act like the perfect parent. I’ll just have to be calm and focussed. I’m there to help my son – I’ll just make sure I have some wine in the fridge for later!!

Again many thanks for your advice

andyrules

I've just read the post by thriftyjo and your response. Generally, primary schools do try to fit in maths and english in the mornings - very structured - and the rest in the afternoon. Subjects like music and art can be quite free and easy, also teachers know that children find it difficult to sustain an intense level of concentration in the afternoon and tend to cut some slack.

If your son finds the unstructured atmoshere difficult to cope with, that can suggest autism (there are many degrees of this on a spectrum) although that is certainly only a consideration.

andyrules

Sorry, I'm inundating you!

I've googled MAST, nothing there and don't want you to be confused. it stands for Multi Agency Support Team and it's looking like it's a local thing. Still worth asking about though, you never know.
Sadly, it is often the case that going through the school for ed psych is the slow route. I'm assuming you got to CAMHS through your GP (you mentioned health visitor), but if not your GP is another route.

Next week sounds terribly difficult, a double whammy in fact. Could you have a good friend/mother/sister to wait for you after for moral support, or even go in? I shouldn't think the school would object under the circumstances. Is ex oh charming and controlled in front of other people? I doubt the school will be fooled, assuming they have some background knowledge for your son.
Deffo have the wine. And chocs.
xx

Carrera74

andyrules wrote:

Sorry, I'm inundating you!

I've googled MAST, nothing there and don't want you to be confused. it stands for Multi Agency Support Team and it's looking like it's a local thing. Still worth asking about though, you never know.
Sadly, it is often the case that going through the school for ed psych is the slow route. I'm assuming you got to CAMHS through your GP (you mentioned health visitor), but if not your GP is another route.

Next week sounds terribly difficult, a double whammy in fact. Could you have a good friend/mother/sister to wait for you after for moral support, or even go in? I shouldn't think the school would object under the circumstances. Is ex oh charming and controlled in front of other people? I doubt the school will be fooled, assuming they have some background knowledge for your son.
Deffo have the wine. And chocs.
xx

Your not inundating me at all - it's like a breath of fresh air on here being able to waffle on about my problems instead of them being stuck in my head!

Thanks for looking re MAST. I meant to google but got sidetracked! Yes I got CAMHS through my GP.

Yes the ex is very charming and unbelievingly controlled and calm in front of other people. He even managed to pull the wool over my own Mum's eyes years ago! The school are aware of the background. I've been very open with them. I wanted them to see the whole picture.

Great idea about the chocs!!

mariejader

I also think this sounds like ASD, when you visit camh's ask them do they think it could be.

The reason I say this is they don't like to give labels to people, sadly with out a diagnosis you can't get any extra help from the LEA, or if you can it will be twice as hard as normal.

andyrules

Just a quickie to let you know I think you're a star for being prepared to sit with the man who abused you in order to help your son. Hope it is pro-active and he starts to get some proper help. I think this 'time-out' thing has gone past its date and clearly isn't benefitting the situation.

Let us know what happens as this thread will disappear otherwise. I think you deserve one of these :grouphug:

Zara33

Going out on a limb here, but i feel you have answered your own question.

Carrera74 wrote:

The first meeting we had he wasn't seeing his Dad so his behaviour had improved. The second he had started seeing his Dad again and he had started getting in trouble at school and trying it on at home too.

Perhaps your son is a confused little boy who needs some help in addressing some issues that he has. Although children might not see domestic abuse they can still hear it. If seeing his dad is having this much negative effects on the little lad then maybe the visits should stop, stop them for a few months to see how your son copes see how things are at home and at school.

Carrera74

Well it's happened. He's been excluded again and this time for 8 days and now the school governors will sit to discuss whether to exclude him permanently as he has been off more than 15 days since Christmas.

He is only going in mornings this week and I got a call at 11.45 to say to collect him urgently as he was destroying things in the class. When I got there all the class were in the hall and he was sat in his class on the computer. The Head and SENCO met with me and said he was fine up until break time but was disruptive afterwards throwing things, pouring water on the other children's work and then knocking chairs over. The classroom was upside down with what he had done. Those poor children that had their work destroyed. I went in and he ignored me. I sat with him and said we needed to go and he had two choices either he walks out with me or when my other half arrived we would take him out. He sat ignoring me for 20 mins and then when my other half arrived we gave him the choice and the SENCO said she would count to 5. When she got to 2 he jumped up and ran round the room knocking chairs off and shouting at us. My other half picked him up and got kicked and punched and the SENCO advised how to restrain him. It was awful When we got him to the car he tried to kick the window through and as I drove off he tried to open the doors, I had put the child locks on but he tried to open the passenger door. I locked the car with the central locking button and then he proceeded to kick and punch me all the journey home shouting that my other half had picked him up when he wanted to walk so he was hurting me for it. I even got a kick in the face I am so upset. When we got home I left him in the car and ran inside and my other half who had followed us in his works van carried Lew from the car and put him in his room. It is awful. I don't know how to deal with this at all. Parenting classes helped but they don't help when he has lost it. It was awful to see him being restrained in the playground. My other half has gone to work and my son has been sobbing saying he is sorry and it won't happen again. I am so angry and upset at him that I don't want to hug him and say everything will be okay, I know that's awful but that's how I feel. He said to me it wouldn't happen again but then 10 mins later he remembered he'd left something at school and would I get it for him. I said no it can stay there and he told me to p**s off and punched me again!

Sorry for wittering on but I am slowly losing it I can't stop crying and if I had some cigarettes I'd be chain smoking by now!!!