9 yr about to be excluded again :(

Carrera74

Sorry this is really long

My 9 year old son has been excluded from school twice since they returned after Christmas. The first day back after the break he was excluded for abusive behaviour for 2 days. He was making funny noises and was asked to go to the time out area to which he refused. We have an IEP in place and one of the strategies is to go and work elsewhere until he calms down. It seems that the noises he makes is a prewarning of what’s to come. He then started running around class kicking random children and as he had been violent and refused to leave class the teacher made the decision to take all the children out of class and I was called to go and collect him. When I got there he had calmed down and I brought him home and chatted to him about what had happened. He said he had been making funny noises and thought he had kicked someone by mistake – I only found out last week what had actually happened. I took him back to school last Monday and rang school at lunchtime and they said he had had a great morning. I was so relieved but then received a call from the school at 2pm to say it had all erupted again. When I got there he had shutdown. You can’t get through to him until he has snapped out of it and that can take up to an hour. The SENCO was sat with him trying to get him to talk but he was just sat on the computer ignoring her. He didn’t even acknowledge when I’d walked into the room. We had been trying to get him to leave with me for about 45 minutes when I’d had enough and said that if he didn’t leave the class by the time I counted to 3 (we use this at home and it works) I would contact my other half (his step father) to come and physically take him out of class. I counted to 3 and he ignored me so off I went to ring him. Whilst I was waiting in reception my son had left the classroom after being coaxed by the SENCo and then I took him home. He was excluded for 4 days this time and luckily my partner was able to take time off to look after him. His father won’t take time off his self employed job. It was his first day back today and the SENCO rang at lunchtime to say he had had a great morning and I didn’t hear from the school til an hour ago. It was his teacher saying that he has been throwing things this afternoon, disrupting the lesson, going into pencil cases and breaking other peoples belongings. She said she could go on but wouldn’t to save me hearing it. The only way she could stop him being excluded again was to keep giving him little jobs to keep him away from the other children. The last thing she said to me was that a girl in the class had hung back after school and said she is sick of my son being naughty in class. It’s breaking my heart. I know he can be such a good little boy, kind and loving but then he’s acting up every day in class. It’s like he has no control over himself. We have had problems at home too but can generally manage his behaviour – it’s easy to let him have a tantrum in his bedroom but the teachers obviously can’t let him get away with it at school. Me and my partner have attended parenting classes via the Health Visitor which have helped tremendously and we have had 2 meetings with CAMHS and they are monitoring him. We also have a strategy meeting next week with CAMHS, the school and the Pupil Referral Unit co-ordinator is attending too. The head teacher seems to think the PRU is the best way forward – I think it’ll only disrupt him more but I can’t go on like this. I just don’t know if he’ll last the week. I am at my wits end. I am constantly watching the phone at work. My work is suffering and I’m worried I’ll be sacked. I can’t sleep cause of the stress. I feel like going home every night from work and drowning my sorrows with a large glass of wine or two. My 14 year old daughter is suffering. We all are. I split with his Dad 4 years ago. He was violent towards me and our son witnessed this and did say some time ago that he remembered bits and pieces. My ex thinks I put the thoughts in his head! I stopped my sons access last week – he usually goes for day contact once a week. The reason I have done this is the only time since July that my son has been good at school is when I stopped access over Halloween after an incident when he stopped over – he had pulled a tantrum and his Dad didn’t know how to deal with it so I ended up collecting him at 2am in the morning. A month after I stopped access my son was a changed person and even got star of the week at school. I am convinced something at his Dad’s is triggering this behaviour although my son says he loves going. I feel mean for stopping him going but I need to prove to myself once and for all that going there isn’t the link to his bad behaviour.

I just wonder has anyone out there got any advice? I know it’s a long road to getting him on track but I need a light at the end of this very long tunnel.

moggins

I think you've answered your own question there. You stopped access and his behaviour improved. As soon as contact is re-established it goes downhill again.

My DS used to behave badly (although not to that extent) when he came back to me on a Sunday night. Now he is older he sees his Dad for what he is and although they still see each other he doesn't try to behave like his dad anymore.

I'd also say that if your XH can't be bothered to take time off to help with your son then what can't he be bothered to do when his son is with him? If your son is feeling like he isn't important to his father he could be displaying all his awful emotions in the places where he feels safe.

shazrobo

has your son been diagnosed as having any medical problems. I ask because from what you descibe he sounds like one of my sons, who has severe ADHD

AnnieH

It certainly sounds like he has some kind of ADHD or ODD (oppositional defiance disorder). The PRU would probably help in the long run to try and establish exactly what your sons problems are. Goodluck and big ((hug))

andyrules

Hi Carrera, this must be a nighmare for you.

I've got a lot of questions to think about.

The thing that jumped out most was that your son has witnessed violence from his dad towards you, and it must certainly be a factor in his behaviour. It does look as if the visits are a trigger, but why? Does your son go to his dad's alone, or with his sister? If so, can she throw any light on what has been happening there. I may have missed something as I didn't find the dense text easy to follow, so apologies if I have. It may just be that the sight of his dad signals the bad things he remembers.

Is the meeting next week one of the multi-agency ones, as it sounds as if your son (and all of you) can do with more support. He may benefit from MAST meetings, particularly as they can do group work and observe behaviour from that perspective. Really, the things you mention plus the fact that his teacher said there's more, does indicate that he is very disturbed and needs more help than is currently on offer.

I'm not sure about the noises you mentioned, does he do this often, as you say it is a warning sign? Has anyone ever mentioned autism? You say he's calmer at home, what do the CAMHS people make of that?

Worth thinking about, did his sister witness the violence, and how is her behaviour towards you and her brother, and in school?

Sorry this seems like a barrage of questions, I really do feel for you and his sister in all this.

fsdss

to me it sounds like your son is having major psychological problems with the seperation and how to cope with it.what you are describing is textbook behaviour problems with children who have experienced violence within the home, and the only way he can get alot of attention is by disrupting others.

incidently is the behaviour at school aimed at females? does his behaviour improve if there is a male present? Is there a trigger factor with afternoons?

if i were you i would go back on a parenting course to reaffirm the way in which he should be monitored and dealt with. (i dont know what part of the country you're in, however there should be plenty of parenting courses spring ing up all over, which are usually free and usually follows the same basic principles of the Social Learning Theory)
ask school if there is a trigger and see if that can be changed.

Janepig

I don't think you need more parenting courses - it sounds like you're doing fine to me, perhaps just need a bit of re-assurance that you're doing okay.

You say your ex was violent towards you - which is all about him manipulating and controlling you. You also said that he is blaming you for somehow planting the memories of this violence into your son's head. I'm quite sure when he was violent to you he somehow blamed you for that too - DV perpertrators do. Ignore him, he's just trying to continue to manipulate you.

Anyway, my feeling is that he may deliberately be winding your son up on visits because he knows that you have to deal with the fall-out. Especially if, when you stopped access the behaviour improved. I'm no expert but when I initially read about your son's behaviour it sounded like he had an autism/ADHD type problem, but reading about the background to this, your ex, etc... I don't think it is.

I also feel sorry for the other kids in your son's class who have to witness this behaviour and be disrupted by it, but also with all the disruption and exclusions, your son can't be learning very much either which is the whole point of him going to school.

Just my opinions obviously. Please hang in there and somehow this will all pass.

Good luck.

Jxx

andycarmi

Poor you. Does you son find it easy to talk about his feelings? He might benifit from some stress management. This will help him realize the feelings and signs before they get out of control. Also teaching him stratages to mange is feelings and behaviour.

Find something that he finds relaxing like visualization, music, play doh... Then when he feels like this he can sit in a quite space in the classroom and bring himself round!

Ask the school SENCO about a IBP (indevidual Behaviour Plan) instead of and IEP!

Sounds like a whole day is too much for him, what about just going to school till 2pm then picking him up early? Is it better to have this time all expected behaviour or do you think he would then want to not go to school? Or if his behaviour has been acceptable till 2 pm have the last hour or so with an independent topic he is intrested in?


Just some ideas you know your son best.

Dumyat

no wisdom just wanted to say how sad I am for your son. at nine he should be having fun and enjoying life. must be such a difficult situation for you all.

Gabriel-Ernest

Given that things seem to kick off after lunch, what is he eating at lunchtime? Could there be food allergies there that set him off? My friends have a son with a major corn intolerance; he's fine until he gets the tiniest bit (including corn syrup) and he becomes extremely violent and has to be wrestled to the ground.

fsdss

Janepig wrote:

I don't think you need more parenting courses - it sounds like you're doing fine to me, perhaps just need a bit of re-assurance that you're doing okay.

Jxx

if the op was doing fine then why post on here?

parenting courses are not just about dealing with problematic behaviour - they are also geared up to building a parents self esteem which enables them to manage behaviour, i think that the op will benefit from a little support in building her esteem. the op also stated that she went on a parenting course through the HV - if my maths are correct that was about 5 years ago when the child was under the HV's caseload and at this time the op was with her ex.(which was violent). circumstances change and coping with a child like this can be traumatic for a parent.

Carrera......trust me you're not alone with what your going through and i hope that everything calms down for you. good luck with CAHMS next week and i would suggest that you also speak to your gp about this.