I am a mean parent

grizzly1911

No_Future wrote: »

7k is hard to survive on.

According to the NUS, the estimate is £10.5K for living expenses outside London, excluding books, equipment and travel

Genuine questions:- Have you had to do this recently and how realistic is this?

Any ideas how the NUS breakdown that budget requirement? Is it an aspirational figure to "talk up" state assistance or reality?

grizzly1911

No_Future wrote: »

£5500 is the maximum loan. How much you actually get depends on parental income. If your parents earn over the threshold you get a smaller loan. Only 2/3 of the maximum loan is guaranteed.

Where is this stated for the new 2012 scheme so I can factor in to DD requirements, especially how it tapers of?


Thanks.

yenool

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Am I missing something here.

If parental income is above £42600 then no grant is available.

The maximum loan available for maintenance outside London is £5500.

Basic self catered accomodation in Uni halls is about £90ish for 39 weeks leaving £1800 towards food and stuff. With a part time job this sis still manageable as the academic year is around 32 weeks weeks.

It is the Grant element that will not be available. The student loan is reduced as the grant goes up.

Obviously any parental assistance would help but ...

I appreciate what you are saying but I just don't think it is as clear cut or simple as you make it sound.

Assuming 42600 parental income the loan would only be £4680 + 540 grant and at this level of income a university bursary is also unlikely.

Your accommodation estimate is good, so then £5220 - 90*39 = £1710 remaining.

However, there are loads of additional costs which you overlook. For example (based on costs at my uni); room bond £150, mandatory hall subs £70, insurance £50 - £100, and the recommended book & material spend for my course (£300).

On top of that my uni charges you for everything (IE. £25 for a permit to lock your bicycle up!) and these figures are also excluding other reasonable costs such as actually moving in, household items, a bus pass, etc etc. - I'm guessing if the OP isn't helping out with cash they wont be supplying all these items that many parents buy as a going away kit.

However, even these optimistic figures would only leave £1140? or approx £29pw. OP's daughter would be totally reliant on landing a good job as soon as she arrived at Uni...... realistically this is FAR from guaranteed and actually quite hard to do until you have settled in and established your timetable. Plus, if you have an intense course, such as engineering, with lots of contact hours you are a bit stuffed. (although arts students do have it better because the courses are not as contact heavy - reading can be done around work hours).

All the research I have done suggests that 6.5k would be the bare minimum living costs based on going to uni in an area that is cheap to live and this figure would rise considerably if you wanted any type of social life or enjoyment once there. . The sample budget on my uni website says 6100, but gives example rent cost at £800 cheaper than any rooms they actually offer!

IMO students should not be forced to work at uni to cover just the bare essentials - working should semi-optional and more about providing funds for the social side if desired . On top of that many universities do not recommend students work more than 10 to 16 hrs anyway.

1: Although understandable to a certain extent, I think the OP is being mean and shortsighted. If they can afford to support their kids at uni they should do so. It is an investment in their future afterall.

2: The goverment should actually be loaning students enough money to live on regardless of parental income. If this proves too expensive then they should cut off funding to joke courses and mickey mouse universities. That way youngsters studying proper subjects can get on with studying and not fretting about money. - It is really sad to hear of students dropping out of uni because of money issues even when they have been careful.

No_Future

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Genuine questions:- Have you had to do this recently and how realistic is this?

Any ideas how the NUS breakdown that budget requirement? Is it an aspirational figure to "talk up" state assistance or reality?

I am a current student.

The NUS figure sounds about right, maybe even on the low side.

There is no way I could live on 7.5k per year to pay for everything.

Below is the link. Rent outside London at £4k is quite cheap, mine has all cost >£5.5k

http://www.nus.org.uk/en/Advice/Money-and-Funding/Higher-Education/Average-costs-of-living-and-study/

Here is another useful document from a few years ago with some facts and figures

http://www.rbs.co.uk/content/personal/current_accounts/student/downloads/RBS_Student_Living_Index.pdf

Also, recent studies have suggested the minimum salary required to live a basic life in the UK is £13k something

No_Future

yenool wrote: »

I appreciate what you are saying but I just don't think it is as clear cut or simple as you make it sound.

Assuming 42600 parental income the loan would only be £4680 + 540 grant and at this level of income a university bursary is also unlikely.

Your accommodation estimate is good, so then £5220 - 90*39 = £1710 remaining.

However, there are loads of additional costs which you overlook. For example (based on costs at my uni); room bond £150, mandatory hall subs £70, insurance £50 - £100, and the recommended book & material spend for my course (£300).

On top of that my uni charges you for everything (IE. £25 for a permit to lock your bicycle up!) and these figures are also excluding other reasonable costs such as actually moving in, household items, a bus pass, etc etc. - I'm guessing if the OP isn't helping out with cash they wont be supplying all these items that many parents buy as a going away kit.

However, even these optimistic figures would only leave £1140? or approx £29pw. OP's daughter would be totally reliant on landing a good job as soon as she arrived at Uni...... realistically this is FAR from guaranteed and actually quite hard to do until you have settled in and established your timetable. Plus, if you have an intense course, such as engineering, with lots of contact hours you are a bit stuffed. (although arts students do have it better because the courses are not as contact heavy - reading can be done around work hours).

All the research I have done suggests that 6.5k would be the bare minimum living costs based on going to uni in an area that is cheap to live and this figure would rise considerably if you wanted any type of social life or enjoyment once there. . The sample budget on my uni website says 6100, but gives example rent cost at £800 cheaper than any rooms they actually offer!

IMO students should not be forced to work at uni to cover just the bare essentials - working should semi-optional and more about providing funds for the social side if desired . On top of that many universities do not recommend students work more than 10 to 16 hrs anyway.

1: Although understandable to a certain extent, I think the OP is being mean and shortsighted. If they can afford to support their kids at uni they should do so. It is an investment in their future afterall.

2: The goverment should actually be loaning students enough money to live on regardless of parental income. If this proves too expensive then they should cut off funding to joke courses and mickey mouse universities. That way youngsters studying proper subjects can get on with studying and not fretting about money. - It is really sad to hear of students dropping out of uni because of money issues even when they have been careful.

6.5k would be impossible for most people to live on. That barely covers rent.

No_Future

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Where is this stated for the new 2012 scheme so I can factor in to DD requirements, especially how it tapers of?


Thanks.

This is a calculator which gives a suggested amount of loan & grant based on parental income.

EDIT: sorry couldn't find one for beyond 2012

http://www.studentfinance.direct.gov.uk/portal/page?_pageid=153,4680136&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

My personal experience of trying to get grants/bursaries/scholarships was that they are few and far between or I wasn't eligible or my uni didn't offer any I could apply for. The only ones I had success with were two local education trusts which paid for a textbook each (about £39-40 each).

kayr_2

No_Future wrote: »

I am a current student.

The NUS figure sounds about right, maybe even on the low side.

There is no way I could live on 7.5k per year to pay for everything.

Below is the link. Rent outside London at £4k is quite cheap, mine has all cost >£5.5k

http://www.nus.org.uk/en/Advice/Money-and-Funding/Higher-Education/Average-costs-of-living-and-study/

Here is another useful document from a few years ago with some facts and figures

http://www.rbs.co.uk/content/personal/current_accounts/student/downloads/RBS_Student_Living_Index.pdf

Also, recent studies have suggested the minimum salary required to live a basic life in the UK is £13k something

This is very interesting! My son is starting this October and we have not surprisingly been discussing budgets/amounts of money needed for living costs. His rent is £3300 and he has calculated he'll need another £2200-2500 for food/other expenses - we both feel this is generous and will enable him to concentrate on his studies without worrying about money. We will cover travel costs for getting there and back. His university does not permit working during term time. He will get the minimum loan and we are happy to give our "parental contribution" even if it is not legally required as we had a great time as students and want the same experience for him.
So reading the NUS figures startled me - they reckon £46/wk for food, £30/wk for leisure, £48/wk for "personal items" (?) and £978 a year for books (what about libraries?). I don't think these are realistic expectations for a student lifestyle and certainly should not be seen as an entitlement for the average 18 year old.

Viridian

I lived with a mother like you and to be honest:

1. You are not being mean, you're being downright unhuman.

2. The time apart will do you both good, trust me.

3. Your income IS taken into account so she will get less loans and grants. In fact, she won't get a grant at all, which will push her out a little bit.


My advice would be to have a heart. But make her get a job first.

aliasojo

You lot are unbelievable.

If someone had posted here about how badly her daughter had acted over the years and how she was still standing with her hand out expecting to still be supported now she was 18, you'd all be telling the poster to cut off the purse strings and tell the daughter to grow up and get a job like thousands of other uni kids have to do.

Instead you immediately jump on the emotive bad Mother aspect without knowing the first thing about the circumstances. It's amazing how you can all judge someone's life and situation just from 2 or 3 short posts.

OP live your life as you see fit.

grizzly1911

kayr wrote: »

This is very interesting! My son is starting this October and we have not surprisingly been discussing budgets/amounts of money needed for living costs. His rent is £3300 and he has calculated he'll need another £2200-2500 for food/other expenses - we both feel this is generous and will enable him to concentrate on his studies without worrying about money. We will cover travel costs for getting there and back. His university does not permit working during term time. He will get the minimum loan and we are happy to give our "parental contribution" even if it is not legally required as we had a great time as students and want the same experience for him.
So reading the NUS figures startled me - they reckon £46/wk for food, £30/wk for leisure, £48/wk for "personal items" (?) and £978 a year for books (what about libraries?). I don't think these are realistic expectations for a student lifestyle and certainly should not be seen as an entitlement for the average 18 year old.

Have one off this year and a second in 2 years time so I have been watching with interest.

I am with you believing that the figures suggested are on the high side. I guess it depends on your expectations, how you have been brought up and how realistic you are. IMO this is a partnership, ultimately he knows we are there if required but this is his turn to step up and make it work.

Accommodation this year is £3700. Like you we have provided his travel expenses, whilst there - most of his transport to and from, luckily he chose one relatively close (not too close though). He has worked since 13 in various part time jobs so has a work ethic. He has put some money aside over the last 12 months for "luxuries".

He hopes to pick up work whilst there and hopefully hours will be available out of term time back home.

I am sure he will take a "high end food & personal goods parcel with him each time".