Sunday working and new job

Sambucus_Nigra

If it's you that is religious then why didn't YOU mention it before accepting the job?

The only reason for doing a u-turn would be that you can't work the days they want - they will probably be able to show that they have other Christians within the business so your cry of discrimination should be happily quashed.

SarEl

bluenoseam wrote: »

Well Hammy i'm real rusty on theology, but i don't remember anything added to "remember the sabbath & keep it holy" along the lines of "if it is not so, seek recompense"
!

Ah - but the Sabbath referred to starts at sunset on Friday and ends at sunset on Saturday - no Sunday in sight!

Can I ask - you say that you got this job through a friend? It isn't clear whether the friend is the employer or whether they are simply trusted to recruit people for the employer.

Either way, what kind of friend are you, that you would be thinking of suing them for religious discrimination even before you start work or know your shifts? Is it your normal practice to be offered a job and immediately start thinking about what you can sue the employer for?

Anyway, the law is clear. If you are required to work on Sundays then you may opt out giving three months notice of your wish to do so. Personally, I concur with the others here. I would expect a sudden diminishing of the work and need to get rid of workers, or performance issues, or a failed probation, before the end of the three month notice period. One way or another I believe that you would find that the employer told you, quite lawfully, to get on the bike Santander loaned you the money for.

Naf

emmaanddave wrote: »

Unless the job clearly states it involves Sunday working then there is no need to mention it. What type of job have you gone for? I would however not go for a job that states Sunday working if you have no intention of being able to commit to those hours.

Its a new start up locally. The business will run 7 days a week; the store manager and me are the only two full time staff. Along with about 15 or so part timers (who will be interviewed & recruited in the next 3 weeks).

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Given different sects of christianity differ on what day of the week that the Sabbath is surely you can ensure there is a single day you dont work and do the necessary then?

That's not really the way it works.

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Ultimately it is something better to get out in the open earlier rather than later as it will be difficult to deal with than if you start and then shortly afterwards you get your contract and it states you must be available for work 7 days a week

Naturally; I'm not looking for an argument with them, and I suspect they will be quite accommodating. Especially as there's nobody else hired yet I'm not anticipating a big problem, I was really just asking to see where I stand not having brought it up beforehand.

GavB79 wrote: »

Presumably your place of work operates on Sundays or you wouldn't have started the thread. Your beliefs are therefore unlikely to fit in with the business needs of your employer so don't expect to be there long, they are unlikely to dismiss you and say 'because you're a Christian' but they could easily just say it's not working out, time to go your separate ways. How do they know you're the candidate they want if you never even had an interview??
If I were you, I'd pray that a 9-5 Mon-Fri turns up.

I had a chat with the owner a few weeks ago, it didn't really seem like an interview as such, and he just said he'd be back in touch nearer opening to discuss further. I wasn't sure if that had just been an interview, or if it would be this next discussion. I've worked plenty of places that open on Sundays, and have not had to work them before, but its always come up in interview.

eschaton wrote: »

I bet your friend will quickly regret recommending you for a job.

I doubt it: he attends the same church as I do.

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

if vicars work on Sunday, why shouldn't you.

We have no paid clergy; a complete lay ministry.

Hammyman wrote: »

No. Nice to see you're part of the compensation culture. How does that fit in with what the bible says?

When I said 'claim' I didn't actually mean I had intention to sue them over it; I'm more looking to decide if I'm in a position to say something like 'well you've taken me on, and its only now you discover my religion that you choose not to give me any work', should they kick up a fuss over it.

SarEl wrote: »

Can I ask - you say that you got this job through a friend? It isn't clear whether the friend is the employer or whether they are simply trusted to recruit people for the employer.

My friend owns and runs lots of local businesses both on his own and in various partnerships. I worked for him a while back, and if he had anything going he'd have given me a job himself. The building this new place is opening in used to be one of my friend's stores; my new boss bought the lease. He really just put me in touch with his friend, I've done the rest.

SarEl wrote: »

Either way, what kind of friend are you, that you would be thinking of suing them for religious discrimination even before you start work or know your shifts? Is it your normal practice to be offered a job and immediately start thinking about what you can sue the employer for?

As above, 'claim' was a very poor choice of words... I was tired. I'll work Sundays if its a choice between that and no job; but really I believe I should make the effort to avoid it. The store manager will be calling this week as there's some work before full time is available the week after and I'm going to talk it through with him. I just wanted to be prepared if they do decide to make something out of it. Particularly as there's nobody else taken on yet, so there's plenty scope to ensure Sundays are well covered.

t0rt0ise

As long as you're aware that you have no employment rights to speak of for the first year you'll be okay. He won't say anything about your not working Sundays but could easily find another reason for your departure later. Speak to your lay preacher and I'm sure they'd give you dispensation to work on a Sunday in the uncertain job climate we live in.

Errata

Ask the Archbishop for a dispensation. He's always pleased when someone obtains a job in this age of economic austerity and will be happy for you to attend a midweek service instead of a Sunday one.

getmore4less

Googlewhacker wrote: »

if there are 3 full timers the other 2 full timers would not be happy to have to cover every sunday, what if one of them is on holiday for example?

If you were a part timer I would expect them to be flexible but with only 3 full timers....I suspect they will say you have to work it if required.

Only 2 full time

vyvyan_2

Most places operate 7 days a week these days. With the exception of very conventional office jobs.

Think of all the shops, pubs, restaurants, petrol stations, leisure centres and all the rest, not to mention nurses, emergency services etc.

We all expect to use these outlets and for that they need to be staffed.

These types of employers have a rota system in place to give staff days off and yet be open for business 7 days a week. As previously said, if you're likely to be inflexible with your shifts, you may find yourself without any shifts!

Could you not compromise and ask to have one or two Sundays a month to be kept free?

It does put your friend in an embarrassing position if you are not happy with their rotas.

The world no longer stops turning on Sundays and hasn't done for many, many years.

miss_duke

Congrats on the job!

I have a Sunday job in a shop, they employ people just to do Sundays there as loads of the staff refuse to work it. So its great, I get double time and only have that one shift a week which is perfect as I do 3 days in my main job.

Everywhere operates differently, fingers crossed it will all work out ok for you.

Errata

Perhaps the OP intends to make no use of health, fire, police and council services on Sundays. They're all staffed by those who have to work Sundays, whatever their religion might be; no doubt some of them consider it's their Christian duty.

bluenoseam

SarEl wrote: »

Ah - but the Sabbath referred to starts at sunset on Friday and ends at sunset on Saturday - no Sunday in sight!

Can I ask - you say that you got this job through a friend? It isn't clear whether the friend is the employer or whether they are simply trusted to recruit people for the employer.

Either way, what kind of friend are you, that you would be thinking of suing them for religious discrimination even before you start work or know your shifts? Is it your normal practice to be offered a job and immediately start thinking about what you can sue the employer for?

Anyway, the law is clear. If you are required to work on Sundays then you may opt out giving three months notice of your wish to do so. Personally, I concur with the others here. I would expect a sudden diminishing of the work and need to get rid of workers, or performance issues, or a failed probation, before the end of the three month notice period. One way or another I believe that you would find that the employer told you, quite lawfully, to get on the bike Santander loaned you the money for.

i had that in the original post but decided it might sound rather harsh for me to point out that as he was generally considered Jewish the sabbath to Jesus would be Saturday!

But i too agree with an old fashioned viewpoint, there's Full Time workers & Part Time workers - Part Timers being there to cover Sundays to avoid having to often times pay expensive premiums to FT workers. Perhaps that's a hideously outdated theory these days, but when i was a PT worker i expected to be rota'd for a Sunday knowing the FT crew were time & a half for Sunday shifts - basic economics tells me that it's cheaper to have a PT worker in! (same goes with Bank Holidays)

However i'm also a believer that in order to follow your religion you really don't need to be at Church/Mass every Sunday in life, the prime teaching in the Bible being that God is omnipotent. You don't need the organ, the clergyman & everyone else there to follow God and be a good Christian, he is perfectly capable of knowing you are professing faith without the fireworks associated with traditional fanfare of going to Church. A good clergyman will offer spiritual guidance any time - don't buy into the hype that you MUST be at Church on Sunday or you'll be struck off the list for Heaven!