INGEUS - Work Programme

donnajunkie

saintjammyswine wrote: »

Thats why only large multinationals are main contractors!

They have to swallow a lot before they get paid the majority of the payments once the client is in employment and stays on the contractor's books for up to 2 years after which, if they are still in employment, the contractor gets another payment.

It is that tight for them and I can assure you they are not entirely sure all of them will survive the process!

well yeah a big company may be able to afford to wait for payments. however i was thinking more along the lines of how unsuccessful these courses are and how only a few people get jobs out of them.

saintjammyswine

That is why the focus has changed from quantity and getting people through the programme regardless of outcome to quality and getting people into sustained work. There is a lot of work in the background with referring agencies (JCP etc.) and sub contracted providers of training elements (Colleges etc.) to change the way things have been done.

donnajunkie

saintjammyswine wrote: »

That is why the focus has changed from quantity and getting people through the programme regardless of outcome to quality and getting people into sustained work. There is a lot of work in the background with referring agencies (JCP etc.) and sub contracted providers of training elements (Colleges etc.) to change the way things have been done.

even if it makes them work harder they face an impossible task as most employers dont want to know about the long term unemployed.

saintjammyswine

There are many large employers coming on board including public & private sector to provide jobs of some sort or other to ensure the clients can at least get into something and to provide the stable employment for the 2 year period. Councils, NHS and very large Nationals are all signing up to the schemes including the work placements, supporting pre-employment training etc.

donnajunkie

saintjammyswine wrote: »

There are many large employers coming on board including public & private sector to provide jobs of some sort or other to ensure the clients can at least get into something and to provide the stable employment for the 2 year period. Councils, NHS and very large Nationals are all signing up to the schemes including the work placements, supporting pre-employment training etc.

yeah our local council has unscrupulously exploited people from these schemes for years. they rarely employ anyone and even when they do its only minimum wage through an agency. i know a bloke who got taken on as a litter picker. he was getting minimum wage through an agency while the council staff were getting £8 per hour. he was also forced to do any overtime that was required without any choice in the matter. this was obviously because it was cheaper to pay him than one of their staff.

saintjammyswine

I know, not ideal but better than it used to be when employment was not even a requirement as an outcome from the programme for the provider to get paid, despite it being designed to get people back into work!

donnajunkie

saintjammyswine wrote: »

I know, not ideal but better than it used to be when employment was not even a requirement as an outcome from the programme for the provider to get paid, despite it being designed to get people back into work!

the problem they have is they dont make the decision whether to employ the person. that is why i cant see it changing much. it just means theres a load of extra pressure on the provider which will mean a load of extra pressure on the unemployed person.

saintjammyswine

agreed, as a provider we are under pressure from JCP, client, main contractor and just about anyone else involved. The only people under more pressure are the main contractors as they are the ones in the press etc and waiting for their money!

absinthefairy_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

sorry dont know what COE stands for.
the person you know has still made a poor decision because they will now be pushed around by the work programme provider and be at risk of sanctions. there is also very little chance of finding work if they are in their 60's. they also have to continue signing on and doing anything else the jobcentre requires. if they went onto pension credit they wouldnt have to suffer any of that but could still look for work if that is what they wanted to do.

Sorry COE is condition of entitlement. They are only sanctioned if they fail to engage or fail to attend and in the area I am in there is quite a good success rate with 60+ customers into work.As for requirements from the jobcentre yes they still have to sign but it is a very reduced signing and the minimum actions required is dramatically reduced as the majority of what they will do will be with the WP provider and other than that they only have to notify the jobcentre of any change of circumstances, that is all that the jobcentre requires for conditioned entitlement to JSA. Agreed they could still look for work when on Pension Credits without all that (wouldn't quite call it suffering but anyway) but they would not have the additional support available.

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Sorry COE is condition of entitlement. They are only sanctioned if they fail to engage or fail to attend and in the area I am in there is quite a good success rate with 60+ customers into work.As for requirements from the jobcentre yes they still have to sign but it is a very reduced signing and the minimum actions required is dramatically reduced as the majority of what they will do will be with the WP provider and other than that they only have to notify the jobcentre of any change of circumstances, that is all that the jobcentre requires for conditioned entitlement to JSA. Agreed they could still look for work when on Pension Credits without all that (wouldn't quite call it suffering but anyway) but they would not have the additional support available.

people do get unfairly sanctioned. it happens quite alot.
60 into work? over what period and out of how many in total?
not suffering? well maybe theres a better word but constantly being told you've got to do this and you've got to do that and if you dont you get sanctioned is not what i would call pleasant. if i could transfer to another benefit and avoid all that i would.