INGEUS - Work Programme

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Not quite business as usual as they are not let off but "deferred" for a set period of time to check they start work, attend a job interview, retire, go on pension credits etc!At end of day its pointless referring someone unless they definately should be there, mainly because it costs and also the Jobcentre would not get the credit for the off flow from getting the person off the benefit the WP would!

it must be a new rule because i remember someone who was 2 months away from their 60th birthday being sent onto new deal.

absinthefairy_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

it must be a new rule because i remember someone who was 2 months away from their 60th birthday being sent onto new deal.

Yes because other previous training (such as mandatory options etc) people who were 60 did not have to attend as it was not mandatory for them, however the WP for JSA everyone has to attend when become eligible regardless of age unless claiming Pension Credits or credits only claimant and for these people it is voluntary referral.

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Yes because other previous training (such as mandatory options etc) people who were 60 did not have to attend as it was not mandatory for them, however the WP for JSA everyone has to attend when become eligible regardless of age unless claiming Pension Credits or credits only claimant and for these people it is voluntary referral.

everyone on jsa claims pension credit when they turn 60. thats my point. this bloke was 2 months away from applying for pension credit but was still refered. you said that they wouldnt be refered onto the work programme if they were 2 months away from claiming pension credit.

absinthefairy_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

everyone on jsa claims pension credit when they turn 60. thats my point. this bloke was 2 months away from applying for pension credit but was still refered. you said that they wouldnt be refered onto the work programme if they were 2 months away from claiming pension credit.

Not everyone is eligible to claim Pension Credits when they turn 60 and some although eligible chose not to and therefore will still be referred to the WP if continuing with JSA and meet the criteria.I can't comment on New Deal rules and regs as don't know much about New Deal, but with the WP there is guidance for deferrals as well as adviser discretion,so if someone was approaching 60 and would be signing off as soon as they did,consideration would have to be made as to whether it is worth referring them to the WP and how close they were to signing off as there is a limit to how long the referral can be deferred for.Maybe it has been changed for that reason, it would surely be a waste of public funds to refer someone to a programme which carries a cost simply by referral if they are likely to sign off very shortly?

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Not everyone is eligible to claim Pension Credits when they turn 60 and some although eligible chose not to and therefore will still be referred to the WP if continuing with JSA and meet the criteria.I can't comment on New Deal rules and regs as don't know much about New Deal, but with the WP there is guidance for deferrals as well as adviser discretion,so if someone was approaching 60 and would be signing off as soon as they did,consideration would have to be made as to whether it is worth referring them to the WP and how close they were to signing off as there is a limit to how long the referral can be deferred for.Maybe it has been changed for that reason, it would surely be a waste of public funds to refer someone to a programme which carries a cost simply by referral if they are likely to sign off very shortly?

if you are 60 and long term unemployed you will qualify for pension credit if you are getting ib jsa. the only people who dont transfer are either stupid or dont know they can. i would have thought the jobcentre would be keen to tell people as it helps reduce the dole figures.

absinthefairy_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

if you are 60 and long term unemployed you will qualify for pension credit if you are getting ib jsa. the only people who dont transfer are either stupid or dont know they can. i would have thought the jobcentre would be keen to tell people as it helps reduce the dole figures.

Pension Credits are dependant on age and circumstances, and also a person's choice if they wish to continue getting JSA and sign off then thats their prerogative and I personally would not assume them stupid but making a choice.True many people are unaware of them, but they are informed both at New Claims and when they are approaching 60 and a calculation can be done by an adviser.That is my point if people have been informed about the credits and will therefore will become an off-flow from JSA if they claim them,it would be a pointless exercise referring them to the WP.

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Pension Credits are dependant on age and circumstances, and also a person's choice if they wish to continue getting JSA and sign off then thats their prerogative and I personally would not assume them stupid but making a choice.True many people are unaware of them, but they are informed both at New Claims and when they are approaching 60 and a calculation can be done by an adviser.That is my point if people have been informed about the credits and will therefore will become an off-flow from JSA if they claim them,it would be a pointless exercise referring them to the WP.

dependant on age? well yeah but we are already talking about that age group. circumstances? yes as well but the criteria is very similar to jsa. for example you can only have so much money in the bank. so anyone meeting the criteria for ib jsa will no doubt meet the criteria for pension credit if they are of the required age. infact the criteria for jsa is tougher because you have to sign on, look for work and can only have upto 6k. on pension credit you dont have to do any of that and can get it if you have 10k. also i'm sorry but to choose to stay on jsa getting £67.50 per week when you qualify for a benefit that pays £137 per week is stupid.

absinthefairy_2

donnajunkie wrote: »

dependant on age? well yeah but we are already talking about that age group. circumstances? yes as well but the criteria is very similar to jsa. for example you can only have so much money in the bank. so anyone meeting the criteria for ib jsa will no doubt meet the criteria for pension credit if they are of the required age. infact the criteria for jsa is tougher because you have to sign on, look for work and can only have upto 6k. on pension credit you dont have to do any of that and can get it if you have 10k. also i'm sorry but to choose to stay on jsa getting £67.50 per week when you qualify for a benefit that pays £137 per week is stupid.

Indeed but seems to have gone off topic slightly as discussion was about WP deferrals! And yes why have the increased COE for JSA when that is removed with Pension Credits,but still a matter of choice, I know someone who would receive exactly the same on Pension Credits as JSA so he decided to stay on JSA and be referred to the Work Programme,as he felt that was better for him!

saintjammyswine

donnajunkie wrote: »

if the only money they get paid is when people get jobs then they will go bust.

Thats why only large multinationals are main contractors!

They have to swallow a lot before they get paid the majority of the payments once the client is in employment and stays on the contractor's books for up to 2 years after which, if they are still in employment, the contractor gets another payment.

It is that tight for them and I can assure you they are not entirely sure all of them will survive the process!

donnajunkie

absinthefairy wrote: »

Indeed but seems to have gone off topic slightly as discussion was about WP deferrals! And yes why have the increased COE for JSA when that is removed with Pension Credits,but still a matter of choice, I know someone who would receive exactly the same on Pension Credits as JSA so he decided to stay on JSA and be referred to the Work Programme,as he felt that was better for him!

sorry dont know what COE stands for.
the person you know has still made a poor decision because they will now be pushed around by the work programme provider and be at risk of sanctions. there is also very little chance of finding work if they are in their 60's. they also have to continue signing on and doing anything else the jobcentre requires. if they went onto pension credit they wouldnt have to suffer any of that but could still look for work if that is what they wanted to do.