You can refuse the Work Programme

DebiT

dugdale wrote: »

Ah, I understand now. What you're saying is that JCP unlawfully sends a lot of information to Work Programme Providers but you can't tell us what they send because JCP don't tell you. How do you know that what has been sent over is unlawfull if you don't know what's been sent over ?

When you visit the work provider you might be asked to sign a data waiver form asking for private information such as your name, address, telephone number, NI number, Cv and even your bank account details.

I would have thought that if you're to visit a Work Provider it would be rather useful for them to know your name (so they know who you are), your address (so they can send you appointment letters or information about suitable vacancies) ditto your phone number. Your national insurance number comes in handy so you can be identified and if the Work Programme provider suceeds in finding you employment they might need it when claiming their fee of JCP. I'm not really suprised that an organisation who have been tasked in getting someone back into work is asking for a copy of your CV. In fact I'd go as far as saying that if they didn't they wouldn't be doing their job correctly. As has been previously mentioned Work Programme providers are responsible for any travel to interview costs, financial help with interview clothes etc so I can understand why they might ask for bank account details, did your provider ask for yours or is it just hearsay?

It would probably be "useful" for them to know all of my business, as you have mentioned, but that doesnt mean I am legally obliged to give it.
You are obviously employed within the benefits system so you're hardly neutral.
The following can be found on "Wikipedia", regarding provider A4E:

"On the 29th June 2010, A4e published a statement that an employee's laptop containing personal details of 24,269 people had been stolen. The employee's laptop was not encrypted, and was not recovered.[13]
In November 2010, A4e were fined £60000 by the Information Commissioner's Office for the loss of the laptop. Commissioner Christopher Graham, said that it "...warranted nothing less than a monetary penalty as thousands of people's privacy was potentially compromised by the company's failure to take the simple step of encrypting the data".[
They were also fined because their recruiters were falsifying employers signatures.
These are the kind of dishonest incompetents we are dealing with, and you think people should give them all their private details? You must be joking.

tsimehC

DCFC79 wrote: »

im just interested but do you happen to know if what you say is true re the information ? anything to back it up at all, does the job centre even hold your bank details, i thought bank details were held elsewhere

Yes they do. There's the LMS system which contains your personal contact details (address, telephone, claim date, employment status etc) and then there's the JSAPs system which is the payment part (it contains the other info as well) and any authorised JCP staff can access bank details of any customer's benefit that's been paid into a bank account.

I don't understand how you can refuse the Work Programme as it's part of the Jobseekers Act 1995 or whatever where it says if you're directed by a JCP staff to attend provisions after a specific day on your claim, you must go otherwise face a possible sanction. It's a grey area and I have seen first-hand many people get sanctions after sanction for thinking they can play the system.

LadyMissA

Karins wrote: »

they would need contact details to arrange appointments, what sort of work you are looking for, do you have dependent children or caring responsibilities that may limit the hours you can work, copy of CV - if they do not get these from JCP then they will ask you to provide the information but if you fail to do so it could be considered non-compliance. They may ask for bank details if you need money to travel to interviews or buy clothes for interviews or have childcare costs when they need you to attend or they may be able to pay these in cash -not sure yet what is happening.
The bottom line is there is no alternative to work programme and unlike previous programmes you can't be thrown off you are their responsibility whatever happens for 2 years even if you become ill and go onto ESA you stay with work programme.

yeah my phone number and my address and my cv - they need to know nothing else about me and for sure not my NI number, details of bank etc.

They pay you to go to interviews? As in travel?

LadyMissA

dugdale wrote: »

Many employers pay salaries direct into a bank account. I believe that the provider is asking for someone to prove that they have a bank account so that there will be no issue should they be given an offer of employment. Ditto the question regarding a passport or birth certificate, they're trying to assertain whether someone has proof of identity as that is often required before someone can be offered a position. Again acceptable questions to be asked by a work programme provider.

but in order to get on the work programme you have already proved to the job centre these things with your passport

And no you do not need your own bank account to get a job. You can nominate someone else to accept the payment in their bank account but they need to sign a form from your employer saying they will forward the monies paid to them via your acct.

Karins

I think the fact that work programme are referred to as providers is perhaps what is misleading here. This is in effect privatisation of part of job centre services.
Once you go to work programme they are responsible for you in all aspects of your job search including job search expenses travel to interviews etc and the only reason you set foot in the obcentre for 2 years is to sign as the computer system holding bank details etc can still only be accessed by jcp staff - in time i am sure a way round this will be found - but jcp staff will not be interested in what you are doing to look for work as this is the responsibility of work programme and they will tell cp if they need your benefit sanctioned.
JCP staff numbers are already being reduced as there remit is only to work with customers pre work programme and once on work programme you have no entitlement to jcp funds.
If work programme should prove a success then there will likely be no jcp in the future

Richardsct

LadyMissA wrote: »

can you tell me how they got you the interview?

They have (my advisor) been canvassing employers and this particular job matched my experience/qualifications, he phoned them up and they said they would like to interview me, might not lead to anything, but we'll see

as to the debate on these pages, the programme cannot be avoided, if you take it in your stride, and work with them there's nothing to worry about!

i also agree with karins JCP's days are numbered in the last twelve months they couldn't have done less or be less interested in helping me if they tried!

ILW

I cannot see what the issue is, if someone is trying to help you get into work, why not just go along with them and be a cooperative as possible. Seems a lot of fuss over nothing.

imatt

"I cannot see what the issue is, if someone is trying to help you get into work, why not just go along with them and be a cooperative as possible. Seems a lot of fuss over nothing."

People are wary and apprehensive about the WP due to:

A: Similar schemes such as New Deal, Flexible New Deal have been failures. If they were such a success, why one program after another after another?

B: Many of the companies involved in the WP have a poor record. A general lack of facilities, poorly trained staff and a paucity of 'courses' (in many cases the courses under New / Flexible New Deal were phantom courses).

This is why many are skeptical or at the very least somewhat cautious over the WP.

Made even worse by the fact that at least a couple of providers have been found guilty of fraudulent activities such as forging employers signatures a couple of years ago under the New Deal program.

Many people sent on these schemes DO want help finding work, training, work exp, self employment etc and will happily take help and advice given. Sadly, the Job Centre offers little if anything to help and private providers have in the past seen their 'customers' as walking £ and $ signs!

smileylondongal

I understand the scepticism however at the end of the day this is what is on offer at this point in time. From what I understand, if you refuse to accept the programme, you may endanger your benefits. End of. There is no debate on this as strongly as you may feel.

They tell us that the companies they have gone into partnership have been selected as they have job openings available. I can only assume that data protection exists regardless of what entity you deal with. If you are concerned, should you not ask your JCP advisor directly rather than believe what is written on forums and in articles? Personally if I were looking for work and at the end of my tether, I'd take every opportunity at my disposal and I wouldn't endanger any potential income.

dugdale_2

imatt, you stated that JCP offers little if anything to help so surely by being referred to a Work Programme provider the additional help that people are asking for may be more readily available.

Historically providers were given a massive ammount of money to provide their services and although their performance was monitored very little action was taken if they under performed.
Work Programme providers are funded by performance. When their customers sign off benefit they're given an initial payment with the remainder being given once the customer has been in employment for a certain period of time. If they don't perform they don't get paid.

As an adviser at JCP I'm frustrated with the lack of funding for training courses as are both my customers and colleagues. I have no control over what budget my Jobcentre has been allocated and have to fight (alongside 16 other advisers) to ensure that my customers have access to this funding. If the pot of money (Flexible Support Fund) was to be shared equally between all advisers, (which it isn't as each case is considered on it's own merit) I would have less than £500 per week to use for travel to interview costs, training courses and anything that used to be covered by the Advisers Discretionary Fund.

Work Programme Providers receive payments of up to £14,000 (for the hardest to help customers) when their customers secure employment. If, for example, they were aware that by spending £5,000 on a training course one of their customers would be guaranteed employment and they would receive a payment of £9,000 I would imagine that the training would have a good chance of being funded. If one of my customers was in the same situation I'm not sure whether I could secure funding for that customer.

JCP staff are envious of the support that Work Programme providers are able to offer. When the Work Programme was first being discussed it was mentioned that some JCP staff might be TUPE'd over to Work Programme providers, unfortunately that wasn't to be.