You can refuse the Work Programme

Bionik_Bonce

Hi guys,

i'm in a position to be able to provide some advice and indeed dispel some of the nonsense that is being banded around as fact.

1. you can refuse to sign the disclosures that will not allow providers to share your information with external partners/employers however they will still be able to liase with JCP and DWP.

you will not be sanctioned for refusing to sign the disclosure it will however make it more difficult for providers to assist you finding work.

2. signing the disclosure IS NOT. under ANY circumstances. a refusal to participate in the work programme. this would be classed as a separate action and if you attempt to do this as well as refusing to sign the disclosure providers will raise doubts on your claim for JSA based upon your non attendance on a mandatory programme. providers are aware of the site and the letters, and have been given guidance to raise sanctions for non attendance and to continue with appointments regardless of these letters.

handing in these letters then refusing to attend further appointments or participate is a dangerous course of action. i cannot guarantee the safety of your benefit. in fact i would advise against this course of action in the STRONGEST possible terms.

3. bank details ARE NOT sent to providers. some providers may ask for this in an attempt to aid you with subsistence payments/interview expenses/training costs based upon your specific circumstances. should you refuse to provide them no sanction should be reaised unless this would in some way negate you taking up employment. to do so would breach ones job seekers agreement as you would be seen to not "be taking reasonable steps towards attaining employmeny". but i find such a situation to be highly unlikely.

in short, providers do not gain your bank details illicitly and if they ask for them at a later date more than likely refusing will be merely making it more difficult for a provider to help you sustain work.

4. details passed are as follows

name
address
phone number
Ni Number
JCP action plan
Inicident markers
benefit claimed
agreed restrictions
client group (specific groups based upon benefits claimed, length of claim and previous benefits claimed, this is a specific detail created for use with the WP).

some have asked why the NI number, simply put it is the only way to confirm your identity with 100% certainty. Even then someone could present and give your NI number but this would then be fraud.

5. ND, EZ, Pathways & FND were failures? i know many people who have been helped to find long term sustainable work through the help of providers.

it is the success and failures of these that have lead the DWP to commission a more comprehensive and etensive program. the Work Program. why spend loads of money on something that doesn't work?

6. WP is about providing free labour to employers? what utter trash providers are paid based on people gaining employment. not on providing free labour.

if a providers advisor thinks that you need a work placement it is probably because that advisor feels you are further from work and need an update of experience/experience in a new area.

7. some providers are unethical or have lost data.

yes some have been accused of such practices, however have all? when were they accused? have these loopholes been closed? were these fraudlent claims or simple admin errors? do you know how outcomes are paid under WP? how do providers claim those outcomes? know the answer to all these questions? no? then your making assumptions.

some sections of some providers have done some questionable things however many are simply committed to helping people. don't tar an entire sector based on some of the bad apples.

donnajunkie

Bionik_Bonce wrote: »

5. ND, EZ, Pathways & FND were failures? i know many people who have been helped to find long term sustainable work through the help of providers.

it is the success and failures of these that have lead the DWP to commission a more comprehensive and etensive program. the Work Program. why spend loads of money on something that doesn't work?

from what i have been told by the jobcentre the work programme is very similar to flexible new deal.
i remember being on new deal during a so called boom period. they said the success rate was 25% and called that good.

LadyMissA

Bionik_Bonce wrote: »

Hi guys,

i'm in a position to be able to provide some advice and indeed dispel some of the nonsense that is being banded around as fact.

1. you can refuse to sign the disclosures that will not allow providers to share your information with external partners/employers however they will still be able to liase with JCP and DWP.

you will not be sanctioned for refusing to sign the disclosure it will however make it more difficult for providers to assist you finding work.

2. signing the disclosure IS NOT. under ANY circumstances. a refusal to participate in the work programme. this would be classed as a separate action and if you attempt to do this as well as refusing to sign the disclosure providers will raise doubts on your claim for JSA based upon your non attendance on a mandatory programme. providers are aware of the site and the letters, and have been given guidance to raise sanctions for non attendance and to continue with appointments regardless of these letters.

handing in these letters then refusing to attend further appointments or participate is a dangerous course of action. i cannot guarantee the safety of your benefit. in fact i would advise against this course of action in the STRONGEST possible terms.

3. bank details ARE NOT sent to providers. some providers may ask for this in an attempt to aid you with subsistence payments/interview expenses/training costs based upon your specific circumstances. should you refuse to provide them no sanction should be reaised unless this would in some way negate you taking up employment. to do so would breach ones job seekers agreement as you would be seen to not "be taking reasonable steps towards attaining employmeny". but i find such a situation to be highly unlikely.

in short, providers do not gain your bank details illicitly and if they ask for them at a later date more than likely refusing will be merely making it more difficult for a provider to help you sustain work.

4. details passed are as follows

name
address
phone number
Ni Number
JCP action plan
Inicident markers
benefit claimed
agreed restrictions
client group (specific groups based upon benefits claimed, length of claim and previous benefits claimed, this is a specific detail created for use with the WP).

some have asked why the NI number, simply put it is the only way to confirm your identity with 100% certainty. Even then someone could present and give your NI number but this would then be fraud.

5. ND, EZ, Pathways & FND were failures? i know many people who have been helped to find long term sustainable work through the help of providers.

it is the success and failures of these that have lead the DWP to commission a more comprehensive and etensive program. the Work Program. why spend loads of money on something that doesn't work?

6. WP is about providing free labour to employers? what utter trash providers are paid based on people gaining employment. not on providing free labour.

if a providers advisor thinks that you need a work placement it is probably because that advisor feels you are further from work and need an update of experience/experience in a new area.

7. some providers are unethical or have lost data.

yes some have been accused of such practices, however have all? when were they accused? have these loopholes been closed? were these fraudlent claims or simple admin errors? do you know how outcomes are paid under WP? how do providers claim those outcomes? know the answer to all these questions? no? then your making assumptions.

some sections of some providers have done some questionable things however many are simply committed to helping people. don't tar an entire sector based on some of the bad apples.

The info I got today which was an offical DWP letter re the work programme states the following:

Additionally, the provider will
keep your personal data secure and will not share it with any unauthorised third parties

So they can not give out the info they have on you.

As far as the NI number goes we have already proved that to the DWP/JCP when we frist went to claim and a provider has no need for your NI number to be given to the providers as they do not need it.

donnajunkie

Bionik_Bonce wrote: »

6. WP is about providing free labour to employers? what utter trash providers are paid based on people gaining employment. not on providing free labour.

if a providers advisor thinks that you need a work placement it is probably because that advisor feels you are further from work and need an update of experience/experience in a new area.

yes they have more motivation now to get you a job but ultimately they have to put you on a work placement and unfortunately the number of people on these courses outnumbers the number of employers genuinely looking to employ people from these courses. so they have no choice but to send many people to places where there is little or no chance of a job. a fnd provider near here sent many people to a training centre to do their placement due to the lack of placements with employers. this same provider has won the contract to provide the work programme.
needing some recent work experience is no reason to send someone somewhere where there is no chance of a job.

LadyMissA

donnajunkie wrote: »

yes they have more motivation now to get you a job but ultimately they have to put you on a work placement and unfortunately the number of people on these courses outnumbers the number of employers genuinely looking to employ people from these courses. so they have no choice but to send many people to places where there is little or no chance of a job. a fnd provider near here sent many people to a training centre to do their placement due to the lack of placements with employers. this same provider has won the contract to provide the work programme.
needing some recent work experience is no reason to send someone somewhere where there is no chance of a job.

they dont have motivation to get you a job as they will get paid regardless of who gets it. IF you find a job and apply for it they still get the money when you have been in that job for a certain time. I asked the guy at the job centre what are they getting paid for then and he said ask the provider

donnajunkie

LadyMissA wrote: »

The info I got today which was an offical DWP letter re the work programme states the following:

Additionally, the provider will
keep your personal data secure and will not share it with any unauthorised third parties

they will no doubt ask you to sign a form giving them permission to do this. basically meaning they can pass your cv onto potential employers.

donnajunkie

LadyMissA wrote: »

they dont have motivation to get you a job as they will get paid regardless of who gets it. IF you find a job and apply for it they still get the money when you have been in that job for a certain time. I asked the guy at the job centre what are they getting paid for then and he said ask the provider

they get a massive bonus if you find employment. of course your adviser still gets paid their wage regardless but how long will they last if they dont get anyone into work and other advisers do get people into work.

LadyMissA

donnajunkie wrote: »

they get a massive bonus if you find employment. of course your adviser still gets paid their wage regardless but how long will they last if they dont get anyone into work and other advisers do get people into work.

the thing is they do not have to do anything for you personally to get the bonus.

they guy at the job centre said they are now worried about their jobs as they have less people to deal with so cuts are going to be made.

donnajunkie

LadyMissA wrote: »

the thing is they do not have to do anything for you personally to get the bonus.

they guy at the job centre said they are now worried about their jobs as they have less people to deal with so cuts are going to be made.

they usually make a point of saying if you get a job let us know. so if you get a job yourself then i would be tempted to not tell them and just sign off. however i have asked here if there would be any comeback when doing this and no-one has an answer to that.

LadyMissA

donnajunkie wrote: »

they usually make a point of saying if you get a job let us know. so if you get a job yourself then i would be tempted to not tell them and just sign off. however i have asked here if there would be any comeback when doing this and no-one has an answer to that.

but they will know you have signed off and the DWP pay them - that's what I was told today.

But having said that the guy told me this 'for my benefit'. If you are unhappy with the treatement you are getting or they arent helping you (in what why I do not know) you make a complaint them and then if the reply isnt the right one and you are still unhappy you then complain to the Independant Case Examiner http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/ it goes for an independant adjudication and if you win the provider gets a MASSIVE fine!!! How nice of the JCP to tell me that!