You can refuse the Work Programme

Mayflip

Basically, the title of this thread is completely wrong. You CANNOT refuse the Work Programme; not if you wish to continue to receive your benefits. Jobcentre Plus can legally pass on to the providers your personal information under the Data Protection Act without your consent. This is because JCP remain the data controllers and providers are contracted to provide a service on behalf of DWP and your details are required to enable them to carry out this function. The only time your consent is required is to allow the provider to contact your employer (when you find work) to confirm that you have started so that they can claim a payment from DWP. Refusing consent will, in the long run, not make any difference because DWP will then contact your new employer on behalf of the provider and DWP do not need your consent to do this.

donnajunkie

LadyMissA wrote: »

but they will know you have signed off and the DWP pay them - that's what I was told today.

perhaps that is the case. i wonder why they are so keen to repeatedly tell people to let them know if they get a job.

donnajunkie

Mayflip wrote: »

Refusing consent will, in the long run, not make any difference because DWP will then contact your new employer on behalf of the provider and DWP do not need your consent to do this.

what if you dont tell the jobcentre who your new employer is?

LadyMissA

donnajunkie wrote: »

what if you dont tell the jobcentre who your new employer is?

you have to on the booklet you sign and hand in when you sign off.

donnajunkie

LadyMissA wrote: »

you have to on the booklet you sign and hand in when you sign off.

why do you? what if you say i want to sign off and dont want to tell you why? can they really stop a person from signing off if they want to just because they dont say why? i know if i won the lottery i would not want to tell them that was why i was signing off.

t0rt0ise

I signed off the dole without giving a reason. The reason was that I was no longer entitled to benefit and didn't want to keep signing. They didn't ask if I had a job or anything, just stopped the claim. Actually they couldn't have been less interested in me if they'd tried.

baybeebug

donnajunkie wrote: »

from what i have been told by the jobcentre the work programme is very similar to flexible new deal.
i remember being on new deal during a so called boom period. they said the success rate was 25% and called that good.

Well I achieve more than 25%!!!

WPN

Mayflip wrote: »

Basically, the title of this thread is completely wrong. You CANNOT refuse the Work Programme; not if you wish to continue to receive your benefits. Jobcentre Plus can legally pass on to the providers your personal information under the Data Protection Act without your consent. This is because JCP remain the data controllers and providers are contracted to provide a service on behalf of DWP and your details are required to enable them to carry out this function. The only time your consent is required is to allow the provider to contact your employer (when you find work) to confirm that you have started so that they can claim a payment from DWP. Refusing consent will, in the long run, not make any difference because DWP will then contact your new employer on behalf of the provider and DWP do not need your consent to do this.

Interesting points regarding "data controller" although DWP do not have lawful authority to contact employers and force them to produce information on a person unless for the purpose of suspected fraud. It is a crime for an Employment Officer to disclose information without lawful authority. They have many powers from so many laws, however, they do not get the ultimate choice of sending anyones personal information to whoever they like. This isn't a dispute between jobseekers of whom are all alleged scroungers and taxpayers who are hard workers, allegedly. Its the same with HMRC and other Government departments. They have a duty on the information they hold.

WPN

Bionik_Bonce wrote: »

Hi guys,

i'm in a position to be able to provide some advice and indeed dispel some of the nonsense that is being banded around as fact.

1. you can refuse to sign the disclosures that will not allow providers to share your information with external partners/employers however they will still be able to liase with JCP and DWP.

you will not be sanctioned for refusing to sign the disclosure it will however make it more difficult for providers to assist you finding work.

2. signing the disclosure IS NOT. under ANY circumstances. a refusal to participate in the work programme. this would be classed as a separate action and if you attempt to do this as well as refusing to sign the disclosure providers will raise doubts on your claim for JSA based upon your non attendance on a mandatory programme. providers are aware of the site and the letters, and have been given guidance to raise sanctions for non attendance and to continue with appointments regardless of these letters.

handing in these letters then refusing to attend further appointments or participate is a dangerous course of action. i cannot guarantee the safety of your benefit. in fact i would advise against this course of action in the STRONGEST possible terms.

3. bank details ARE NOT sent to providers. some providers may ask for this in an attempt to aid you with subsistence payments/interview expenses/training costs based upon your specific circumstances. should you refuse to provide them no sanction should be reaised unless this would in some way negate you taking up employment. to do so would breach ones job seekers agreement as you would be seen to not "be taking reasonable steps towards attaining employmeny". but i find such a situation to be highly unlikely.

in short, providers do not gain your bank details illicitly and if they ask for them at a later date more than likely refusing will be merely making it more difficult for a provider to help you sustain work.

4. details passed are as follows

name
address
phone number
Ni Number
JCP action plan
Inicident markers
benefit claimed
agreed restrictions
client group (specific groups based upon benefits claimed, length of claim and previous benefits claimed, this is a specific detail created for use with the WP).

some have asked why the NI number, simply put it is the only way to confirm your identity with 100% certainty. Even then someone could present and give your NI number but this would then be fraud.

5. ND, EZ, Pathways & FND were failures? i know many people who have been helped to find long term sustainable work through the help of providers.

it is the success and failures of these that have lead the DWP to commission a more comprehensive and etensive program. the Work Program. why spend loads of money on something that doesn't work?

6. WP is about providing free labour to employers? what utter trash providers are paid based on people gaining employment. not on providing free labour.

if a providers advisor thinks that you need a work placement it is probably because that advisor feels you are further from work and need an update of experience/experience in a new area.

7. some providers are unethical or have lost data.

yes some have been accused of such practices, however have all? when were they accused? have these loopholes been closed? were these fraudlent claims or simple admin errors? do you know how outcomes are paid under WP? how do providers claim those outcomes? know the answer to all these questions? no? then your making assumptions.

some sections of some providers have done some questionable things however many are simply committed to helping people. don't tar an entire sector based on some of the bad apples.

I have not been online for a while so just catching up on many threads... you have taken a lot of trouble to provide such information; not sure if you work for Jobcentre Plus, a provider or neither, but how can anyone take you seriously when you claim to be an expert although you spell Work Programme as "Work Program"... if you cannot get the name right (we are talking about just the name of the scheme not spelling in general which isn't a major problem if it can be understood) then how do we know if you are a credible source?

Bionik_Bonce

I have not been online for a while so just catching up on many threads... you have taken a lot of trouble to provide such information; not sure if you work for Jobcentre Plus, a provider or neither, but how can anyone take you seriously when you claim to be an expert although you spell Work Programme as "Work Program"... if you cannot get the name right (we are talking about just the name of the scheme not spelling in general which isn't a major problem if it can be understood) then how do we know if you are a credible source?

apologies regarding spelling, I am dyslexic and should have run it through a spell check. program=programme=porgamme=porgame to me, I should have checked more thoroughly.

I never claimed to be an expert. I claimed to be in a "position to provide some advice." whether that advice is accepted or not is totally up to you. however I felt that the information in this thread had a hole in it, a hole I could fill. hence I posted.

I am worried that people will follow this course of action lose benefit lose time and most importantly fall further into debt/other issues that will make a return to work more difficult.

Re: signing off without a reason or just not telling the JCP.

this is possible however it can affect you receiving benefits that you should be entitled too such as the job start grant and the 4 week housing benefit and council tax run on. fail to sign off correctly and neither of these benefits will be paid. the criteria for these are having an unbroken claim for 26 weeks and be starting a job that is expected to last more than 5 weeks.

Re: 25%

any provider who only achieves 25% will more than likely become bankrupt very quickly. due to the length of time and the relatively small lump outcomes (depending on client group). most providers achieved well over 25% in FND and are aiming for higher under WP.

also providers are now (or will be able to) liaise directly with HMRC and therefore claim outcomes based on the fact that A) you signed off and you are paying tax. who your employer is largely only speeds up this process and allows providers to assist you in the first stages of work.

needing some recent work experience is no reason to send someone somewhere where there is no chance of a job.

I disagree, I have seen many people go into placements where a job was not on the cards. I have also seen those people do so well that a job has been created for them.

also what if the only thing stopping someone getting a job is lack of a reference? or that they want to try something new but no one will give them a chance? placements give people the opportunity to do this without signing off benefit for a short term contract. there are many positives to work placements and as stated many people who come into WP may not have worked, at all, in decades or may not think they can work. work placements have many benefits and tarring them all as "providing free labour for employers" is not only misguided it is dangerous as the people that DO need that experience/reference/chance, hear that negativity and it will come across in their placement.

as I have stated before. providers gain no benefit to providing work placements for employers. none. employers receive no incentive to take people and many won't consider it as it costs them money. it is only the people on the work placements who can stand to benefit.

The info I got today which was an official DWP letter re the work programme states the following:

Additionally, the provider will
keep your personal data secure and will not share it with any unauthorised third parties

So they can not give out the info they have on you.

As far as the NI number goes we have already proved that to the DWP/JCP when we first went to claim and a provider has no need for your NI number to be given to the providers as they do not need it.

this is the case. to do otherwise will contravene the data protection act of 1998. providers will however ask for your permission to contact employers on your behalf and pass information to them for the purposes of assisting you to find work. however as stated in part 1. of my first post you do not have to give this. it will however make it more difficult for the provider to help you find work.

you have but how does a provider know that the person who turns up at their office is the same person that they have on their screen. there is no photo on the screen, multiple people can live at the same address with the same name. the only thing providers can use to identify people all of the time is their NI number.

Most of the time this is done to ensure that the details providers have are yours and you’re not looking at someone else’s details as the provider has the wrong person on their screen.