Nice people thread part 4 - sugar and spice and all things

SingleSue

Must stop posting on other threads....it does no good for my blood pressure!

chewmylegoff

fc123 wrote: »

That doesn't seem fair......a 2 tier fee structure? Is it a subsidy I wonder, as the council pay less to save on spending taxes and the private person pays a top up to compensate?

Yes, it is a forced subsidy effectively paid to the state by those who cannot get state funding - a stealth tax. It's pretty low in my view but the council has to cap rates to prevent costs spiralling out of control and the care home being a private enterprise needs to make a profit otherwise it would be closed down. If the government regulated the price directly by saying care homes accepting state funded people could only charge the rate the council paid to private patients, then everyone would suffer in terms of the standard of care the received as the profit would be maintained by cost cutting (the standard is already not that great according to many accounts).

So it is unsavoury but pragmatic, and the state will pay once your assets fall below a certain level, and in any case you can't take it with you.

zagubov

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Yes, it is a forced subsidy effectively paid to the state by those who cannot get state funding - a stealth tax. It's pretty low in my view but the council has to cap rates to prevent costs spiralling out of control and the care home being a private enterprise needs to make a profit otherwise it would be closed down. If the government regulated the price directly by saying care homes accepting state funded people could only charge the rate the council paid to private patients, then everyone would suffer in terms of the standard of care the received as the profit would be maintained by cost cutting (the standard is already not that great according to many accounts).

So it is unsavoury but pragmatic, and the state will pay once your assets fall below a certain level, and in any case you can't take it with you.

If you spend your wealth acquiring assets while not paying taxes that fund care, then this is how the money is eventually brought to bear on the problem of funding said care.

I've cousins who live in Germany, where people more often rent rather than paying more to rent money to buy an illusion of "ownership" of their dwellings which will eventually have to be surrendered to finance the care needed in later life.

Instead they pay higher taxes and this ( I gather) provides for their care. There's no illusion of owning your property, but I have heard they have very good housing (better than ours) for most of their lives followed by very good care (better than ours) for their declining years. Somebody's doing something right. Not us, mind.:mad:

Rant over!

CKhalvashi

zagubov wrote: »

If you spend your wealth acquiring assets while not paying taxes that fund care, then this is how the money is eventually brought to bear on the problem of funding said care.

I've cousins who live in Germany, where people more often rent rather than paying more to rent money to buy an illusion of "ownership" of their dwellings which will eventually have to be surrendered to finance the care needed in later life.

Instead they pay higher taxes and this ( I gather) provides for their care. There's no illusion of owning your property, but I have heard they have very good housing (better than ours) for most of their lives followed by very good care (better than ours) for their declining years. Somebody's doing something right. Not us, mind.:mad:

Rant over!

Correct Zag!

I know we’ve had concerns over Germany and the Euro, however Angela Merkel as an effective ‘Euro leader’ should save the entire scheme if done right.

Germany has always controlled inflation well (since the WW2 incident) and therefore has the correct economy to deal accordingly with better care.

Same goes for Finland/Sweden, and I think possibly Norway, too!

Pobby

Thanks zagubof. I gather there are huge regulations regarding tenants rights in Germany. Rather than the shambles mess we have with private renting in the UK. Are rents cheaper? Who is the freeholder? Although I have been to Germany a number of times, I know Holland better where I gather renting is the norm. Always impressed with their welfare system, culture, cleanliness and general way of life. Then again it is not a country that teams up with the USA and waves its willy in the air still trying to be the the great world influence. Even the Royals go around on bikes. Imagine Phil the Greek doing that and shouting strange things at anyone that was ethnic.

zagubov

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Correct Zag!

I know we’ve had concerns over Germany and the Euro, however Angela Merkel as an effective ‘Euro leader’ should save the entire scheme if done right.

Germany has always controlled inflation well (since the WW2 incident) and therefore has the correct economy to deal accordingly with better care.

Same goes for Finland/Sweden, and I think possibly Norway, too!

I could lose count of the countries which have a sensible approach to handling their economies. Northern Europe is thick with them, for a start.

Pobby wrote: »

Thanks zagubof. I gather there are huge regulations regarding tenants rights in Germany. Rather than the shambles mess we have with private renting in the UK. Are rents cheaper? Who is the freeholder? Although I have been to Germany a number of times, I know Holland better where I gather renting is the norm. Always impressed with their welfare system, culture, cleanliness and general way of life. Then again it is not a country that teams up with the USA and waves its willy in the air still trying to be the the great world influence. Even the Royals go around on bikes. Imagine Phil the Greek doing that and shouting strange things at anyone that was ethnic.

Thanks Pobby- I can't find anything there I disagree with. Germany has strong tenants rights. In fact in Scotland there was traditionally a shame of debt which meant everybody rented and only bought once they'd amassed a big enough deposit so they'd be borrowing less, so renting was more of a norm than "ownership". I saw a table once which said the greatest % of house ownership was in England Ireland the US and Bangladesh (and no, I don't remember the order).

Freehold/leasehold splitting only exists AFAIK in England Wales and Hawaii.

Many other countries have more sensible ways of organising their economies/societies than the UK has IMHO.

Danny Dorling's "So You Think You Know Britain" was one of my best recent reads. Unfortunately I read it while on one of my frequent work trips to Holland and when you glance around and see how well a tiny country like that organises and arranges itself and its economy compared with this so-called "major power" you'd feel like handing the whole government a P45! (It's probably not called that now- I'm showing my age!)

Pobby

zagubov wrote: »

I could lose count of the countries which have a sensible approach to handling their economies. Northern Europe is thick with them, for a start.

Thanks Pobby- I can't find anything there I disagree with. Germany has strong tenants rights. In fact in Scotland there was traditionally a shame of debt which meant everybody rented and only bought once they'd amassed a big enough deposit so they'd be borrowing less, so renting was more of a norm than "ownership".

Freehold/leasehold splitting only exists AFAIK in England Wales and Hawaii.

Many other countries have more sensible ways of organising themselves.

Dare I say it but I believe that most of the ills stems from the Thatcher days. I think that council housing was a great asset to this country. To put housing by and large into a pretty unregulated sector of the public domain has been nothing but a huge disaster costing tax payers huge amounts of money.

As many know, I am was very anti the way that house prices got out of hand under Labour. I heartily supported Brown when he said he would not let the housing market get out of control again. I also be believe that he that power to do just that. From where I am, all I can see that for many it has brought misery and discomfort.

For me the 3.5 times income really worked. You borrowed money from depositors and you gave them a fair return. I did for years as I am sure many of us of a certain age did.

In a way I get the feeling that those who have saved are frowned upon for wanting a fair return. By the same token we are all on the sharp edge. I challenge anyone who says that inflation is as stated. Haha, taking housing costs out of the equation doesn`t sit happily with me.

The tool of raising interest rates is long gone. Imagine, the country would collapse.

As one of a certain pair of long ago comedians said " That`s another fine mess you got me in "

John_Pierpoint

PN, I have not managed to keep up with all the twists and turns of this thread, so if I try to comment on issues you have already resolved, just tell me.
I'm in the process of going through this "nightmare" for the third time and slow dementia prolongs the torture worst of all.
My mother was cared for at home, by a series of carers via several arrangements BUT the legislation forces you to use an agency, so I settled down into something that cost £56 a day (plus the cost of feeding the carer) That lasted 4 years following my mother's stroke that had turned her into an overweight 3 year old.
It worked in spite of continuous resistance from the "professionals", who wanted her packed off into a home. [Nice and "safe" for them] Financially this open ended commitment worked too because the value of "her" house was going up in leaps and bounds. It was in an interest in possession trust, since my dad died in the 1967 (!) so out of the grasp of the local authority anyway.

Then my uncle had what seemed to be a similar stroke, but that was eventually diagnosed as a brain tumour and its rapid advance killed him in three months - so the NHS paid for his stay in a nursing home. Being asked [told] to sign the "do not resuscitate" documentation came as a bit of a shock.

For the last three years, since FIL died, my DW has been trying to keep MIL in her own home, with the help of carers. FIL could manage the slowly encroaching dementia up to then.
This commitment has been a continual stress and a burden as she lives 150 miles away. and up to now MIL has just been increasingly "difficult" and irrational about her current situation. Things came to a head about 6 weeks ago when MIL, who knows there is nothing wrong with her, did a "Del boy at the bar" trick, by trying to steady herself against the open dining room door.
(fortunately while in the care of DW who had just come out of said room)
Repairing the broken thigh seems to be a relatively simple procedure these days - they just screw everything back together, no more lying on your back for months with a huge lump of concrete clamped round the broken limb.
However "the system" offers no physical or mental rehabilitation for those in their dotage in hospital, unless they demand it.
So MIL is now a physical wreck as her muscles have wasted away and a mental wreck because she does not really understand where she is and why.
She has now been packed off to a "top of the range" [read wickedly expensive and pretty "posh"] care home with special dementia facilities.
[Well at least you know your mum is now in a safe place and being cared for..........woops that was definitely the wrong thing to say]
The care home now has someone in a wheel chair because that is a lot easier to handle and prevents her trying to hit the staff. It will be interesting to see how they handle her verbal frustration outbursts.
I find I have to bite my lip about some of the things DW and BIL are doing, as it is not really my problem and agreement between two people is difficult enough to achieve, without them getting their in-laws in on the act.

So PN that is my story - any thoughts feel free to share them if I can help.

One point about the Power of Attorney - if the donor has "lost capacity" it needs to be "registered with the court" - so the government can claim they have tried to prevent hanky panky.
In the case of my mother only one organisation queried her "capacity", so I simply ignored them until I eventually got probate. [All they really have to do is to demand her counter signature and then ask why you cannot provide it - she is mountain walking in Himalayas probably won't work;)]
I rather fear DW is going to have the same problem when organisations cotton on to MIL being in a dementia home - fortunately she has the "old" Enduring Power of Attorney - which is slightly less onerous.
What sort of PoE do you have?

Another thought: If handled correctly, I believe the local authority is responsible for the first 12 weeks of care - someone on the MSE forum will know the chapter and verse of the regulations.

A couple of other thoughts:

Germany, I believe, makes children financially responsible for their parents - so it is not just your inheritance you are having to spend if you are German.

Holland has assisted euthanasia, I believe.
Personally I would like to think I have the courage to go down the "Dignitas" route if necessary [Though many would not agree with me.] I have a fond memory of getting into a discussion (argument?) with this bloke: Ritchie_Calder when I had all that false confidence of an ignorant 18 year old - though he was only a professor at the time - looks like the pressure of time is changing opinions. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

PasturesNew wrote: »

Well, we will be, but things don't work quite like that. Need to get the PoA in my hand, then get my 4rse down to the bank and set it all up.... it's all time, and paperwork and will be done some time once the old's settled.

Originally we were looking at doing it on the basis it'd be in a branch in the old's town.... but now the old's moving towns and won't be managing their money it opens up a whole new world of Internet/phone banking to us - so we've not researched any of it yet.

There's a lot to do every day with all sorts of calls/texts/emails going on - and trips of 40 miles round trip to be made and now a property to look after remotely and the will's still not sorted and the PoA's only 99.99% finalised and the property needs to be cleaned/cleared and to go on the market and there are maintenance issues there too and there are these other decisions re a home location that have had to be done ... all with a backdrop of daily not knowing what state the old will be in ... and their varying medical and mental issues over the past two months.

Also, I've learnt to move slowly on things because everything's moving so fast and it's all changing so often that if I did everything "now/today" it'd often cause extra work as it needed undoing/unravelling in the following week as goalposts moved.

vivatifosi

Morning peeps. Hope you are all well today with no fences down or housing damage with those winds last night.

I heard something on the news this morning that set a train of thought in place this morning and couldn't believe that I'd missed a milestone. Last year was five years after having my tumour removed. So I've got through five years of being alive and with no noticeable effects (other than a scar).

When I first had tumour removed I couldn't get a diagnosis and it was like that for a very long time. I knew it was a very rare type of potential melanoma, I knew that my path report wasn't good in that it had started to breach the next level of skin down and there were signs that it had travelled elsewhere. I knew it was very fast growing (it went from nothing there to big enough to have removed under guidelines in less than a year). Having said that, there was also a chance it was a benign tumour that mimicked melanoma. Either way it was a hard decision because it was so rarely seen. Plus the benign version was found mostly in children and almost never in the over 40s (and I was in my early 40s when it first appeared).

My local hospital trust could not determine accurately what type of tumour it was so they forwarded it to the regional panel. They too could not decide, so it went to the national panel, under the leading expert. They too could not decide so I spent 18 months in limbo. Eventually my husband and I found a Dr doing research in the US in terms of the genetics of melanoma, so I paid to have my sample tested there. They said they thought it wasn't melanoma. Finally, I could get a job, get insurances without that weight over my head.

In the meantime, while waiting for diagnosis. I'd asked the doctors here how I would know if I didn't have it. They said if I was still alive in 15 years, then I would finally know that I didn't have it. Well, five years down, ten to go. I can't believe I missed that milestone. Because of the uncertainty of diagnosis I used to pass each year with a big hurrah. Five down and I forgot. So I thought I'd mention it as it was a horrible time to go through and I spend every year - no matter what life throws at me - genuinely overjoyed to be alive.

silvercar

:j to Viva :j

Did you need chemo / radio in case it was melanoma?