Nice people thread part 4 - sugar and spice and all things

lostinrates

re dogs, the problem is that lots of intruders come prepared for dogs if they are not opportunist. the dogs would die before they let anyone near me, I'm pretty sure ....but I don't want them to be killed!

We have fairly extensive lighting, suitable as security lighting and its been on the list to replace the defunct motion sensors. I think this just took a leap of importance. All the on switces are out on the farm yard, only the mains is in the house. I have in the past thought of leaving them on at the switch and trying to use the trip of the mains as a light switch, but seems a tad excessive.


Right.....after defra I suppose I metter find out how much new motion sensor things are!

vivatifosi

Lir, PIR motion sensors are very cheap and easy to fit, including to outbuildings if you run power to them. B-i-l runs a security company (mega busy at the moment as you would understand) but I'm happy to ask him for some advice if you want some.

John_Pierpoint

Davesnave wrote: »

Seconded. I've only just read the thread.

CCTV can look a bit incongruous in the countryside. We have one place with it near here, and it stands out. Good security lighting is a different matter.

While CCTV certainly had an effect at our school, the improved traditional deterrents, like better fencing, had more. I well remember the night one of our new picnic tables (the type with two built in benches) went missing. One minute it was sitting there in the playground, and then, on the next sweep of the camera, it was gone. As the camera was one of those enclosed in a dome, there was no way the thieves timed it; they were just lucky.:(

I'd say good PIR activated lights and your dogs are your best allies, lir.

lostinrates wrote: »

Right.....after defra I suppose I better find out how much new motion sensor things are!

I get too many false positives, when a fox wanders across the lawn for example, but perhaps chest high scanning can help avoid these? I am never sure if we have turned them on and forgotten them or they have turned themselves on - so tend to turn them off fully and save all those electrical watts.

They say that nasty aggressive little ankle biting dogs are more effective that the big ones.

We have a "neighbour" with posters that say "break in and make his day" plus CCTV but it does make the place "show out" as worth robbing. That arms race leads eventually to the flame throwers, the armed guard and the electrified fences used by the better off in third world countries.
Personally I would recommend defensible space: One way in and out, preferably with some nosey old curtain twitcher at the entrance. Clearly marked gates and thorn hedges but with lack of "cover" between the first checkpoint and the garden proper.
The thief must realise that he is entering a rat trap with only one way out.

I used to have a road side flower seller sharing my turn off - very useful, and having fresh cut flowers in the house is a bit of a luxury.

However an intelligent alarm system inside the house, that telephones a circle of your neighbourhood vigilante group (the Police have long ago demonstrated that they are not interested in domestic burglary) could be useful.

lostinrates

vivatifosi wrote: »

Lir, PIR motion sensors are very cheap and easy to fit, including to outbuildings if you run power to them. B-i-l runs a security company (mega busy at the moment as you would understand) but I'm happy to ask him for some advice if you want some.

Thank you Darling Viva. I think I'm ok, because I'm going to call the person who wanted to give me cctv etc for a housewarming gift (I'm prescious to many :rotfl::rotfl:) whose security team should sort me out. If that has changed then I'll call an elevctrician or security company having spoken to the first set of people....me and ladders seems a pretty bad idea.

I know initially they were talking about 5-six external cameras and OI laughed pointing out I am a little fat housewife, not a gold plated starlet ...now I feel...six cameras, that's all?:o:D

The point is here are places we can't see from the house, and it would be nice to see those through camaras before deciding whether we need the police or whether me and the dogs are sufficient.

lostinrates

:A

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

They say that nasty aggressive little ankle biting dogs are more effective that the big ones.
.

I have heard first hand too many tales of police fishing aggressive litle dogs from places they can no longer cause trouble. Loos, where they have been drowned, or deep freezes. Even a small freezer draw. Little dogs, though snappoier, are more easily restrained and dealt with by one person.

That's actually why my parents first got interested in the big-dogs. Our chest freezer would fit big dog in, but no one would be able to lift the fat lump, certainly not while trying to restrain her if aggressive. You'd need a minimum for two people, one stroing, two normal to lift, one to restrian head/slam lid down.

John_Pierpoint

Real thieves are scared of anything that might draw blood - makes a nice match with the DNA data base.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

lostinrates wrote: »

I think this just took a leap of importance. !

Hi LIR

When we lived in less salubrious parts of the world our company provided security training, and had to implement security plans and systems for all our work and residence buildings.

Our head of security was ex-military, grumpy, Welsh, and used to shout a lot. But to this day I remember a few key principles that apply just about anywhere.

A lot of it is common sense, and obviously not all places are suitable for everything, but I reckon most people can do something.

Given sufficient time, resources, and motivation, an attacker can get through just about anything. So the goal isn't to make a building impervious to break-ins, but rather too big a PITA to bother with, so 99% of the time they'll pick a softer target to begin with.

Good security is always based on concentric circles radiating out from the house. The goal is to make it noisy, time consuming and annoying to get through each layer. So things like fences and walls should be uncomfortable/difficult to climb or straddle, gate hinges should never be oiled so they screech loudly when opened, plants/hedges full of thorns, dogs roaming the garden or even a flock of geese (remarkably noisy when disturbed) at a farm, etc.

Intruders generally hate light, being seen and being stuck out in the open. So security lights on motion sensors on the house, facing outwards, will dazzle them and make them unable to see if you've seen them. And clear the immediate surrounds of the house of places to hide.

Most thieves are opportunists. Things like dogs, CCTV, security alarm signs, etc, will deter most of them, as I said earlier, they'll just look for an easier target.

If they do get through all that and up to the house, sturdy doors, over-size hinges, deadbolts, and toughened glass aren't that much more expensive to put in if/when you ever remodel, and can make it surprisingly hard/noisy to get through. And if you're worried about being home alone at night, spend a few tens of quid and put some good deadbolts on some of the inside doors. Most people don't need a proper "safe room", but just having to get through some sturdy, locked, inside doors to get to you if you ever have to retreat to a bedroom and call for help may well be enough to slow things down until the police get there.

Of course, some of that may be overkill for idyllic rural Britain.... ....., but maybe you'll get some ideas and see a few things that are easy to do, and which make a difference.:)

lostinrates

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Real thieves are scared of anything that might draw blood - makes a nice match with the DNA data base.

Yes, this is true, and in the terms I'm talking, about big dogs v little dogs a real change.

The other thing to consider with dogs, is that it uses to be less common for people to come ''armed''. The local horse watch coordinator told be the cross bow for dogs is locally popular for this:eek::eek:. I suppose a small dog is a more difficult target.

Hmm. dilemma. I think for today I'll stick with sorting out the lights!

lostinrates

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Hi LIR

When we lived in less salubrious parts of the world our company provided security training, and had to implement security plans and systems for all our work and residence buildings.

Our head of security was ex-military, grumpy, Welsh, and used to shout a lot. But to this day I remember a few key principles that apply just about anywhere.

A lot of it is common sense, and obviously not all places are suitable for everything, but I reckon most people can do something.

Given sufficient time, resources, and motivation, an attacker can get through just about anything. So the goal isn't to make a building impervious to break-ins, but rather too big a PITA to bother with, so 99% of the time they'll pick a softer target to begin with.

Good security is always based on concentric circles radiating out from the house. The goal is to make it noisy, time consuming and annoying to get through each layer. So things like fences and walls should be uncomfortable/difficult to climb or straddle, gate hinges should never be oiled so they screech loudly when opened, plants/hedges full of thorns, dogs roaming the garden or even a flock of geese (remarkably noisy when disturbed) at a farm, etc.

Intruders generally hate light, being seen and being stuck out in the open. So security lights on motion sensors on the house, facing outwards, will dazzle them and make them unable to see if you've seen them. And clear the immediate surrounds of the house of places to hide.

Most thieves are opportunists. Things like dogs, CCTV, security alarm signs, etc, will deter most of them, as I said earlier, they'll just look for an easier target.

If they do get through all that and up to the house, sturdy doors, over-size hinges, deadbolts, and toughened glass aren't that much more expensive to put in if/when you ever remodel, and can make it surprisingly hard/noisy to get through. And if you're worried about being home alone at night, spend a few tens of quid and put some good deadbolts on some of the inside doors. Most people don't need a proper "safe room", but just having to get through some sturdy, locked, inside doors to get to you if you ever have to retreat to a bedroom and call for help may well be enough to slow things down until the police get there.

Of course, some of that may be overkill for idyllic rural Britain.... ....., but maybe you'll get some ideas and see a few things that are easy to do, and which make a difference.:)

Do you know what the geese did last night? Seriously....the blinked a lot when the police shone a torch at them :rotfl::rotfl:. Proper lights would have woken them up better, good plan.

Squeaky gates....yes. But are climb overable atm, as is some of the fencing and a fair bit of the hedging. I can sort the bottom gate pretty easily today (it also has gate alarms at both ends, I think I'll get some more of these.)


I'm not normally jumpy at home alone....actually I love it. Door security is already on the list.....we're excellent at the front, back needs to be improved. I'm convinced I was so excitable last night because a: was looking elsewhere at problems, taken eye off ball here, and b: mild have been slightly overexcited by riots. Did say to dh I would rather he worked from home this week.


Incidentally, he loves new location, has already made friends and swapped emails with the neighbour (cold, faceless London, eh?) and enjoyed a lie in before strolling to work.:D

GDB2222

lostinrates wrote: »

re dogs, the problem is that lots of intruders come prepared for dogs if they are not opportunist. the dogs would die before they let anyone near me, I'm pretty sure ....but I don't want them to be killed!

I'm not sure about the countryside, and I'm not sure about your personal circumstances, but in the town intruders simply avoid places with dogs. Number 45 has a dog, so break into number 47. Oops, 47 has a burglar alarm, so break into 49. It's incredibly rare for an intruder to break into somewhere knowing that the householder is home.

Obviously, that doesn't apply if you store the crown jewels in your home, in which case I'd suggest getting a safety deposit box. It's more difficult with valuable paintings and furniture around the place.