Nice people thread part 4 - sugar and spice and all things

Generali

GDB2222 wrote: »

Insurance policies often exclude damage due to riots. Is there some central government pool for that sort of thing, or are owners just left with a pile of ashes?

I believe that you can sue the police for your losses in a riot:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/49-50/38/section/2

Where a house, shop, or building in [F1a police area] has been injured or destroyed, or the property therein has been injured, stolen, or destroyed, by any persons riotously and tumultuously assembled together, such compensation as hereinafter mentioned shall be paid out of [F2the police fund] of [F1the area] to any person who has sustained loss by such injury, stealing, or destruction; but in fixing the amount of such compensation regard shall be had to the conduct of the said person, whether as respects the precautions taken by him or as respects his being a party or accessory to such riotous or tumultuous assembly, or as regards any provocation offered to the persons assembled or otherwise.

Doozergirl

A lot of this isn't rioting though, IMO. In isolation, a lot of cases would be blatant robbery. The Reeves furniture store was looted and set on fire. The police weren't even there. In Birmingham they were trying to rip out cash machines. It's utterly deplorable.

Lots of sirens here today. Eerily quiet last night. I suspect things are actually operating 'normally'!

LIR I totally agree about the water cannon. It would work in a situation where nothing else seems to be. One water cannon will do the job of many policemen with less risk to them personally. I don't care how old the perpetrators are. Even if it were my own son out there I'd tell them to go ahead. If you're not involved, you don't get hurt.

GDB2222

At any given time in this country, there are about 50,000 police on duty. That includes the custody sergeants who can't leave their desks in the custody suites, the motorway speed patrols and the guys in the control centres. There simply are not enough Police around to deal with multiple disturbances and riots. I agree, Doozer, it's mostly just thieving, mixed in with some boredom, although there are clearly some people very distraught about the US losing its AAA bond rating.

The Evans bike shop in Camden Town was looted, so some kids now have some very, very smart bikes to whizz around on - bikes costing as much as a car, at least a few of them.

iB1

Doozergirl wrote: »

I can't go to sleep. Can't stop watching. Slightly scared, for little reason. I don't think Birmingham is nearly as bad but the pictures of Reeves Corner burning are just shocking to me, Croydon girl that I was, I went to school less than 100metres from that spot. The shop was such a local institution and there are some shocking photos coming out. Not sure if the daily mirror will have time to get the woman jumping out of a building, silhouetted by flames, into the arms of policemen onto their front page.

Constant, constant reports of different fires etc all over London and trying to follow on radio, twitter and the TV all at the same time. I think it's calming down and then there's another phone conversation on the TV with someone clearly with adrenaline in their voice. Individuals relaying stories of their homes being ransacked whilst they were in them, shop workers being beaten up - the personal toll of all of this.

Watching people's home burning, live on TV, in Croydon. Those poor people. Homeless for no reason at all. I've not felt the need to before, but I could weep now.

I didn't realise that you were a Croydon girl originally. Me too - well a Croydon bloke You're right, that furniture store at Reeve's corner is/was almost iconic (although I never bought anything from there).

My sister works for Croydon council and got sent home at 4pm as they were aware that stuff was going to kick off. My Dad went to bingo last night and I had a frantic hour or so where I couldn't contact him - but it was just that his phone was on silent and he didn't realise that everything had kicked off.

Dirty filthy chavs the lot of them. Croydon has gone downhill since I was brought up there, but the northern parts of it are rapidly falling into a cesspit now. The shops that were burnt and smashed near West Croydon station are all small Asian/Caribbean grocers and restaurants. Who's going to want to start a business and invest in that area of Croydon now when the yocals do things like this

Doozergirl

iB1 wrote: »

Dirty filthy chavs the lot of them. Croydon has gone downhill since I was brought up there, but the northern parts of it are rapidly falling into a cesspit now. The shops that were burnt and smashed near West Croydon station are all small Asian/Caribbean grocers and restaurants. Who's going to want to start a business and invest in that area of Croydon now when the yocals do things like this

So shocking. I do remember the descent of that Northern part, along London Road. Nastier elements would catch the train up to West Croydon as well, jump the barriers and I'd have to share train carriages with them when I lived in Streatham. In fact, I stopped getting the train into West because of the elements on the train and the spats that would occur there and around the station and would catch the bus down to Streatham Common so I could come in to East. That says something when you live in Streatham!

I specifically remember my grandparents buying their sofa from Reeves. We'd go shopping and my grandad used to park his car behind the Drummond Centre, I think before it was even the Drummond Centre. It's something else now.

I'd always spend my 'emergency pound' on doughnuts from the Bakers Oven in Church Street and have to walk 4 miles home each time I inevitably lost my bus pass They used to deliver baskets of them to school at break time and we'd buy them for 20p. The smell of freshly made doughnuts!

lostinrates

Last time with her favourite vet for dog-dog....she has one more dressing change with another vet on Friday. Today Favourite Vet made a mistake of coming into the waiting room saying...''Time for my favourite patient''and cuddling Marvellous, not realising her previous two clients were still queing to pay...they looked a bit peeved....especially the ones with the very beautiful dog who dog-dog had just sworn at.

lostinrates

I would really like it, if as the riots get wound up and punishments issued we could also spend some time teaching people what ''respect'' is, how it works and what it means. They go on and on about ''respect'' which I think they confuse a little with courtesy and a little with ''getting what they want''.

Generali

lostinrates wrote: »

I would really like it, if as the riots get wound up and punishments issued we could also spend some time teaching people what ''respect'' is, how it works and what it means. They go on and on about ''respect'' which I think they confuse a little with courtesy and a little with ''getting what they want''.

You can't. It's for the parents and the community to teach their kids how to behave. Teachers, schools, 'The Government'; none of them can do this.

We've rewarded generations to take what they want and be barely chastised if what they want happens to belong to someone else. The idea of working for a living is ridiculous. You fight and you take and might is right. The police and the community around you won't help you look after your property so you look after your own and take what's unguarded.

That's the reality in large parts of London. The vast majority of it, even the expensive bits.

lostinrates

Generali wrote: »

You can't. It's for the parents and the community to teach their kids how to behave. Teachers, schools, 'The Government'; none of them can do this.

We've rewarded generations to take what they want and be barely chastised if what they want happens to belong to someone else. The idea of working for a living is ridiculous. You fight and you take and might is right. The police and the community around you won't help you look after your property so you look after your own and take what's unguarded.

That's the reality in large parts of London. The vast majority of it, even the expensive bits.

I agree with all that....but its actually a less deep comment I was making .....about pop vox interviewees with teenyrioters ''its coz day do not have respec for uz, so we do not respec them''.


I also agree, that is not confined to the poor boroughs. And its equally disgusting. Honour ...another quality that's become laughable in the UK.

iB1

lostinrates wrote: »

I agree with all that....but its actually a less deep comment I was making .....about pop vox interviewees with teenyrioters ''its coz day do not have respec for uz, so we do not respec them''.


I also agree, that is not confined to the poor boroughs. And its equally disgusting. Honour ...another quality that's become laughable in the UK.

My concern with a lot of these "yoot dem" is that their definition of "respect" is totally different to everyone else's definition. It's like that chavvy girl (Birmingham one) saying that they do this 'cos they get no respect from the police. So why are they nicking stuff and smashing up and burning shops? That's nothing to do with the police, which is probably half the reason why the police pretty much let them have at it last night I reckon.

How will people respect you when you smash up your own city?