Can an affair ever have a happy ending?

whitewing

Short of death, I can't really think of anything worse than my husband having an affair. My husband's life and mine are so interwoven both on a daily basis and in our plans for our future. Having a good relationship is far more liberating to me than being on my own. It's kind of like having the best life I can think of with someone cheering me on, and cheering someone else on. We don't get to do everything that we want when we want but we can prioritise. It is difficult to see how an affair by either of us wouldn't shake things to the core.

Errata

Welshwoofs wrote: »

I actually said that I see most things in shades of grey. I don't like using the terms 'right' or 'wrong' because there are many situations which don't fit neatly under either heading.

Example:

1. Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop

Now I guess you could just stick a big old 'wrong' label on that, but that implies almost religious style moral judgement which takes no account of circumstances.

- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because when the driver saw the child and applied brakes, they didn't respond.
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop...because driver was on bail, had no licence and didn't want to go back to prison
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because driver was having a heart attack and the car finally came to a halt upside down in a ditch a mile down the road.
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because driver was 4x over the limit

Are the drivers in all those cases as equally culpable? They all ran over a child. In a world where there is only 'right' and 'wrong' they'd all be equally blamed and castigated because the end result was horrific.

In other words, I prefer to look at the specific circumstances rather than make blanket judgments based on some unspoken list of 'goods' and 'evils'

The examples you give cover a range of accidents and deliberate acts. Having an affair is a deliberate act, not something that simply happens by accident.

Wickedkitten

Marisco wrote: »

So what criminal acts do you consider to be on par with having an affair then?

Fraud since having an affair is actually fraud of a sort

lostinrates

whitewing wrote: »

Short of death, I can't really think of anything worse than my husband having an affair..

Well, I've been thnking about this a lot during the course of the thread. I know I would survive, I'm a survivor. I'd survive even though I'm quite sure I wouldn't want to survive it at times. I am strongly of the opinion that there is not ''the one'' but rather several wonderful possibilities in life and partners, but that's easy to say when you are in a great marriage I think. But, lots of the things on the list of awful things have hit close to my family, and I think I'd rank the end of a relationship in such circumstances as higher than burglary and lower than the arson that severely injured a child in my family. What a weird exercise in theoretical despair that was.


welshwoofs, what you fail to acknowledge is that some of us have said we have ALMOST been in that position and have backed away from it, and still think its wrong.

Some people have been abhorant to PTN I agree, but I also think its fairly grim to be dreadful to people its perceived are raw and suffering (though not to call them on the rudeness). They are, after all, the other side of the same story...only without the choice.

VestanPance

Welshwoofs wrote: »

I actually said that I see most things in shades of grey. I don't like using the terms 'right' or 'wrong' because there are many situations which don't fit neatly under either heading.

Example:

1. Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop

Now I guess you could just stick a big old 'wrong' label on that, but that implies almost religious style moral judgement which takes no account of circumstances.

- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because when the driver saw the child and applied brakes, they didn't respond.
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop...because driver was on bail, had no licence and didn't want to go back to prison
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because driver was having a heart attack and the car finally came to a halt upside down in a ditch a mile down the road.
- Car runs over a child on a zebra crossing and doesn't stop....because driver was 4x over the limit

Are the drivers in all those cases as equally culpable? They all ran over a child. In a world where there is only 'right' and 'wrong' they'd all be equally blamed and castigated because the end result was horrific.

In other words, I prefer to look at the specific circumstances rather than make blanket judgments based on some unspoken list of 'goods' and 'evils'

There are no grey areas in any of that. Maybe you just don't understand right and wrong, as someone unable to control a car can not be wrong for not stopping it as they did not have the actual ability to do so. The same alpplies to someone having some sort of suprise heart attack.

The only instance you could label them as wrong would be to start to drive the car knowing it had a brake failure, or getting in to drive knowing you where banned due to a medical condition. Both of those cases require the person in question to do something they know is not right. Then it becomes a wrong, much like entering an affair from either side.

That's the thing with these so called grey areas, they are nothing but excuses for bad behaviour.

Welshwoofs

euronorris wrote: »

No, but in two of those examples the things that caused the crash (ie, brake failure and heart attack) were outside the control of the driver (as would the child suddenly running out into the road from behind a parked car, meaning the driver had no opportunity to stop). Whereas, in the other two examples the driver had made a choice, ie he had control.

I was simply pointing out that something which can seem clear cut on the surface often has extenuating circumstances when you look at it a little closer.

No one could ever say, honestly, that they were forced into an affair. They made a choice, it was within their control.

No, but they may have entered the affair based on information which made them think it wasn't too bad a choice. In my circumstance, my ex told his lovers that we had split up but still lived in the same house (separate bedrooms) because of financial considerations and that we were both following our own romantic paths. So technically those women were having an affair but they were under the impression that circumstances were very different from the reality.....how could I judge their character or 'moral fibre'?
They were as duped as I was.

I'm sorry, I understand extenuating circumstances and all that, but there is still a need to judge whether something is right or wrong (or good or bad), IMO. I don't know how anyone could through life, making decisions, without making judgements on whether that choice is a good or a bad thing.

I, like most people, make judgements based on the information to hand but I try and avoid making great sweeping statements about circumstances. Affairs are sad and usually someone ends up getting hurt. Do I think that ALL people who engage in affairs are morally corrupt, unpleasant individuals? No. But I think that some are. Do I think that it's understandable that some people enter affairs before drawing the line under their current relationship? Yes, but I also think that sometimes it isn't understandable.

I simply find these blanket generalisations about situations and people a little stunted....but that's just my opinion.

whitewing

Isn't the blanket observation on this thread that ptn should not be having/continuing the affair?

I can't remember anyone actually supporting it, just some people making excuses for how may have started or being ongoing for the moment.

Welshwoofs

VestanPance wrote: »

There are no grey areas in any of that. Maybe you just don't understand right and wrong, as someone unable to control a car can not be wrong for not stopping it as they did not have the actual ability to do so. The same alpplies to someone having some sort of suprise heart attack.

I think you've missed my point by a country mile.

That's the thing with these so called grey areas, they are nothing but excuses for bad behaviour.

Again, you've missed my point. I'll put it another way....

Many people, on hearing that child got run over by a driver who didn't stop, would automatically call that driver all the names under the sun and insist it was a heinous crime. However, as you've rightly identified, if the driver was in the middle of a ruddy great myocardial infarction or the victim of a sudden brake failure then they're not guilty of a heinous crime after all - they're as much of a victim as the child. In other words, you couldn't judge the running over of a child on face value because there are grey areas.

Turning to the question of affairs, you equally can't paint all women who have an affair with a married man as callous, calculating home wreckers because there are a myriad of circumstances which led them to make the choice to enter an affair (up to and including not even realising they were having an affair!).

Welshwoofs

whitewing wrote: »

Isn't the blanket observation on this thread that ptn should not be having/continuing the affair?

I'd say that's a fair observation, though the reasons behind that thought will obviously be wildly divergent.

However there are also people on this thread who appear to believe that everyone who has an affair are pretty much the scum of the earth and some of the insults thrown at PTN (and Nicky in fact) would seem to support that. I happen to believe that not everyone in an affair is a 'nasty person'.

VestanPance

Yes I can name all women or men who enter an affair with someone who is married as exactly what I think of them, as there is no grey area. There is no mechanical failure or medical illness to having an affair.

If someone is tricked by the married person by not telling them they are married then I'd grant them an exception over that, but only to the point that they break it off once that secret is uncovered. There is certainly no grey area to entering an affair with someone you know is already married. It doesn't matter what they say about their relationship, or current living arrangements are like or any other excuses that may be offered.

Edit: To clarify if you think something is a grey area all you need do is investigate the issue further.