Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Sirlaughalot

EricMears wrote: »

If you ask for a smart meter, you'll be billed for it (no idea how much).

Install SPs with existing meter and if there is a problem it will be replaced without cost to you.

Hi Eric,

That`s interesting to know thought they would have installed a smart meter free as it looks like that`s likely to happen in the years ahead. Anyway as i already explained i don`t expect any inconvenience or disruption to my normal energy supplier change/energy club patterns for something which is basically the fault of the energy supplier.

Thanks

SL

Martyn1981

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks for all your help guys. Think i may have opened a can of worms here with the various issues i have raised but it may help other MSE`s when pondering on the issue of PV installation.

On the basis of being forewarned i`m edging against installation until my electricity meter has been replaced with a new/smart meter.

SL

Hello Goodknight!

Possible solution, but bear with me, as I'm quoting vague memories and ponderings - not necessarily facts (gulp!)

If you are sure that export will be more than 50%, and let's face it, without some very clever tech such as an intelligent switch, it probably will be, then why not consider getting an export meter fitted at the time of the install.

Somewhere, maybe on MSE, is/was a list of the big six and how they treat this. From memory, my supplier EDF tell you to speak to the installer. Some might do it and charge you lots. Some might do it for free (?)

If you have an export meter, then simply by deduction (TGM - export) you know what you consumed, and if the import meter goes 'wonky' it'll be easy to work out what it should say, assuming household demand hasn't changed.

So speak to your supplier and ask about their policy.

Here's where my guesses get even guessier. Presumably an export meter (as different to an import and export meter) is exactly the same as an import meter, it just has the cabling reversed (??????) So instead of counting leccy left to right, and glowing solid red for leccy right to left (could I be more technical ) it would count leccy right to left and red light for left to right.

(Please somebody put me out of my misery!)

Given that a TGM is just an import meter, and cost I believe £20(ish), then 'slapping' another one in during the install, wouldn't be the biggest of jobs, and may pay for itself with all those extra 4.64p's. Eg 3,600 generation, deemed 50%, but actually 65% so 15% = 540*4.64p = £25pa.

Apologies if this is a wild goose chase, but maybe worth just checking what the policy of your provider is, and if they simply accept 'standard' meters, and the verification number of said meter, to put you onto measured rather than deemed export.

Even more to think about, hope this is quick and simple, and you don't end up looking for a Fort Knight! :rotfl:

traM.

Sirlaughalot

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hello Goodknight!

Possible solution, but bear with me, as I'm quoting vague memories and ponderings - not necessarily facts (gulp!)

If you are sure that export will be more than 50%, and let's face it, without some very clever tech such as an intelligent switch, it probably will be, then why not consider getting an export meter fitted at the time of the install.

Somewhere, maybe on MSE, is/was a list of the big six and how they treat this. From memory, my supplier EDF tell you to speak to the installer. Some might do it and charge you lots. Some might do it for free (?)

If you have an export meter, then simply by deduction (TGM - export) you know what you consumed, and if the import meter goes 'wonky' it'll be easy to work out what it should say, assuming household demand hasn't changed.

So speak to your supplier and ask about their policy.

Here's where my guesses get even guessier. Presumably an export meter (as different to an import and export meter) is exactly the same as an import meter, it just has the cabling reversed (??????) So instead of counting leccy left to right, and glowing solid red for leccy right to left (could I be more technical ) it would count leccy right to left and red light for left to right.

(Please somebody put me out of my misery!)

Given that a TGM is just an import meter, and cost I believe £20(ish), then 'slapping' another one in during the install, wouldn't be the biggest of jobs, and may pay for itself with all those extra 4.64p's. Eg 3,600 generation, deemed 50%, but actually 65% so 15% = 540*4.64p = £25pa.

Apologies if this is a wild goose chase, but maybe worth just checking what the policy of your provider is, and if they simply accept 'standard' meters, and the verification number of said meter, to put you onto measured rather than deemed export.

Even more to think about, hope this is quick and simple, and you don't end up looking for a Fort Knight! :rotfl:

traM.

Hi raMt,

Heads beginning to overheat now and it`s starting to affect me spellin!

Just had a very interesting call with a MCS PR rep. He informed me that at present there is no guidance from MCS to their members regarding anologue meters but pointed out that they are in discussions with the main energy providers about sorting this MAJOR problem out but he also mentioned that they were reluctant to provide MCS installers with guidance that could discourage possible new customers away from renewable energy even with the fore mentioned problem(quite amazed by that!).

Regards the soil pipe no fixed items should be permanently removed from the roof so removal of the soil pipe as he explained would be against the MCS code.

Another point of note was the insurance schemes offered by installers in case they go out of business is not monitored by the MCS organisation. Members just have an insurance but could be with any micky mouse outfit.

In fairness to the guy he did say the MCS organisation is still in it`s infancy and new guidance is being added as new issues come to light.

SL

zeupater

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks for all your help guys. Think i may have opened a can of worms here with the various issues i have raised but it may help other MSE`s when pondering on the issue of PV installation.

On the basis of being forewarned i`m edging against installation until my electricity meter has been replaced with a new/smart meter.

SL

Hi ( Sirwindupalot )

I can't really see a can of worms having been opened, just issues which we have all encountered as part of the investigation process and have overcome in out own minds .... I've posted at least three or four times around your perceived metering issue in order to provide guidance, yet you seem to have moved no further forward on this aspect of your investigation than you were when first raised. Have you looked for the ratchet symbol on your meter yet? ... have you contacted your DNO and/or supplier for their guidance ?

I checked the size of our roof plane with a tape measure, a digital photo of the house, rotation of the picture to find the roof angle and some elementary trigonometry. On the basis that if you know one acute angle and one side on a right angled triangle you can resolve the other angle and all sides ...

The 50% energy saving which the installers have used is the figure which they always use as per the standard assessment methodology they must use ... good installers will also provide guidance on what they 'think' you will actually save .... it's pretty well accepted on these boards that a 4kWp system will likely save around £100/year on import for an average user ... If you read/trawl through the various threads on this forum you'll see that this has been the subject of much discussion - but we've all been through it, so use £100 in your calculations, take anything over that as a bonus and blame the government and the REA for your having to receive the 50% figure .

As for type of panel .... there's nothing wrong with polycrystalline panels, it a case that if you want to buy a cheaper system you'll probably need to accept that monocrystalline panels will not be specified/supplied, whilst if you need to maximise performance density on a smaller roof, higher efficiency (Wp/sqm) will be an option worthy of consideration which will very likely employ monocrystalline cells ...

From memory, it seems that you have received very reasonable quotes using high spec/quality mono panels manufactured by SolarWorld & SunPower but have discounted these on price, now having a preference to source more on price than performance or quality ... this is a choice you need to make, we can't make it for you, neither can the installer ...

Regarding the soil stack ... working on this really only depends on whether it will shade a panel ... we have two, the one on the roof with the panels is now a tile vent .... when talking to your installers and they mention capping the pipe in the loft, they almost certainly mean with a non-return cap which allows air entry, but no exit .... anyway even if this is not the case they only cost something like £20, so it's not really a deal-breaker ...

Regarding the disclaimer .... if you were looking to have a system installed prior to a change to the rate at which the FiT is calculated and the installer had been made aware of this, a disclaimer would be a logical option for the installer to both meet the customer requirements and to protect themselves from potential litigation .... if not, then I agree it's naughty and the REA should be made aware that the company is using the practice in order for action to be taken.

On 'snowguards' ... we don't have them and I can't recall ever seeing any fitted in the UK and when you have panels you do tend to notice & look at installations that others would not even see. If our panels were mounted above a glass roof conservatory or above a car/carport then a snowguard which would break the single mass of moving snow before it fell would be an option worth considering, but they're not ...

When we had our panels there were very few installations around, even fewer people to provide help/guidance and very few installers with much experience, so I spent a long time researching and went through much of the thought-process which you are now going through .... at some time you will find it will be necessary to accept that you have asked the questions, received answers based on experiences, minimised the perceived risk and therefore be in a position to make a decision .... from experience, a risk-averse individual needs to analyse a situation to their satisfaction then make a decision, simply overanalysing will lead you to postpone the decision indefinitely ....

From what I've seen so far some pretty decent answers and guidance based on the experience of those who already have systems have been given by a number of members ... simply discounting the answers or repeating the same questions on the same threads will lead to the same responses from the same individuals ... if you don't trust the answers then there are two options, ask the questions on a different site to see if there is a consensus with those supplied here, or come to realise that a pv system may not be suited to the level of risk which you are willing to accept ....

HTH
Z

Sirlaughalot

Thanks Z for your remarks after my conversation with the MCS PR rep i`m happy to leave any installation until the guidance issue regarding meters is clarified with all the authorities concerned as mentioned in an earlier post. With regards the soil pipe i will not go against MCS guidance so if i decide to install a PV system it will be a 12 panel system away from the dormer and clear of the soil pipe.

Thanks
SL

orrery

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

... and clear of the soil pipe.

They just cut mine shorter to minimise the shadow - only a problem with very low early morning sun in the winter.

agentk

sorry but i too think this is a wind up 76 posts prob 150 answers have you factored in vandalisim and loss of gen . 2011 a system would cost 12k still lots jumped in . ok the fit was greater. there are a lot of asumptions, variables to put in any systems.the sun might not come up tomoz. the meter is not yours. sorry dont mean to offend ,mike

Sirlaughalot

orrery wrote: »

They just cut mine shorter to minimise the shadow - only a problem with very low early morning sun in the winter.

Hi Orrery,

It`s not a shading issue for me it was a case of removal of the soil pipe and venting in the loft using a duple valve, so that a panel could sit where it would have been. But not an issue for me now just an issue which goes against the ACS code.

Thanks

SL

Sirlaughalot

agentk wrote: »

sorry but i too think this is a wind up 76 posts prob 150 answers have you factored in vandalisim and loss of gen . 2011 a system would cost 12k still lots jumped in . ok the fit was greater. there are a lot of asumptions, variables to put in any systems.the sun might not come up tomoz. the meter is not yours. sorry dont mean to offend ,mike

Hi agentk,

No offense taken but if there are issues it`s best to attack them head on and not ignore them. In my case as i have said consistently now best to take as long as it takes with a 25 year investment.

Thanks

SL

zeupater

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Z for your remarks after my conversation with the MCS PR rep i`m happy to leave any installation until the guidance issue regarding meters is clarified with all the authorities concerned as mentioned in an earlier post. With regards the soil pipe i will not go against MCS guidance so if i decide to install a PV system it will be a 12 panel system away from the dormer and clear of the soil pipe.

Thanks
SL

Hi

I would anticipate that the timescales for such guidance will be beyond the financially viable scope of the FiT scheme and the pending smartmetering rollout will take precedent over any resource that would be allocated to any such guidance ... I'd say that you've simply been 'fobbed off' ....

Taking the guidance given on these boards into account regarding analogue meters, it's my perception that either the metering issue has been latched onto as an excuse to not install the panels for some other reason, or there was never any serious intent to have an installation in the first place. Waiting for the MCS to issue guidance simply isn't logical as the 'analogue metering issue' just isn't an issue - it's simply either non-existent or easily solvable by your supplier by fitting another ...

Regarding the soil-pipe, as previously advised, this is a building regulations issue and not within the remit of the MCS scheme .... it's similar to the loading properties of your roof etc ....

HTH
Z